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Amazing 502 World Record Bull Elk?

Kevin Reid with his 502 SCI Elk
There is definitely a buzz going around about two monster bull elk. Some rumors say there is a legit world record bull scoring over 500 inches taken with a bow. Some saying it is from idaho, others saying possibly from Arizona. Then there are photos of another huge bull, likely taken the same year…by the same guy? A lot of questions, but what are some of the correct answers?

The message boards and emails are going crazy with this topic and the photos that continue to circulate about these big bulls. Some are posted with truths, some totally made up falsehoods, and others with a little bit of both.

I was fortunate to have the opportunity to talk with the hunter of both of these bulls. Kevin Reid was the lucky hunter to take down not one of these huge bulls, but both of them. Contrary to what many may think, these two bulls were not taken the same year. One was taken last year during the 2004 season and the other this year. Now the big question…Are these fair chase bulls?

Kevin Reid was hunting a private high fenced ranch in Idaho in 2004 and came across two monster bulls running together. Kevin ended up taken one of the bulls with his bow at just over 30 yards. The bull is an incredible bull scoring 447 SCI. After the season, the ranch owner called Kevin and told him he thought the other bull that was running with the bull Kevin shot was even bigger. Sure enough, Kevin went back for the 2005 season. After three weeks of hunting, he finally got within bow range of this bull. This bull has been scored by SCI (Safari Club International) scorers at an incredible 502 2/8 SCI. This bull will become the new SCI world record bull (taken with any weapon).

So will these bulls be eligable for Pope & Young or Boone & Crockett? No, they will not. They were taken in a high fence arrangement, and therefore will not be eligable. They will be entered in SCI and be not only one of, but two of the biggest bulls recorded. Even in high fence, there has never been a 500 inch bull taken before. The only bull ever taken by a hunter that scored over 500 inches (gross score) is the Mike Shipsey Bull. Mike Shipsey shot this bull in 1997 on the San Carlos Reservation. This 11×10 point bull scores 502 6/8 gross, 487 net non-typical B&C. However, the Shipsey bull has not been entered (or accepted) into the B&C Club. The San Carlos Fish and Game in Arizona has a replica of this elk in their office – so if you are down that way you can check it out.

Kevin was nice enough to give me permission to post these photos of his elk. Kevin is an accomplished hunter and has hunted all over the world, which includes entries in Pope & Young. However, one thing he is a little frustrated with is the rumors about these bulls going around on the Internet. He has never tried to pass these bulls off as fair chase bulls, and has been up front about them from the start. Unfortunately, people have been passing these photos around and included their own information which has been incorrect. Kevin knows what they are, but is not trying to trick anyone, and has been getting emails daily about his bulls himself. Hopefully this will help clear up some of the confusion.

Below are some photos of Kevin’s two Idaho archery bulls:


Kevin with his 447 SCI bull taken in 2004 on an Idaho high fence ranch


Another pic of this monster typical 447 SCI bull


Kevin and his 502 2/8 SCI high fence bull taken in 2005


One more pic of this 502 2/8 SCI bull from Idaho

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arrow372 Responses

  1. Brad Faulk
    107 mos, 2 wks ago

    In the first picture of the 502 2/8 the background is filled with high brush and trees but the second picture has none at all. Was the Elk moved to a diffrent location between shots. Also What county was it taken.
    Thanks
    North American Hunter
    Life Member

  2. 107 mos, 2 wks ago

    Brad,
    I am not sure the exact location or county of the ranch these bulls were taken on. You are correct as far as the photos are concerned. The bull was taken in the brush area, but they then moved the bull out of the brush and out into the open on a small ridge and took some additional photos. This is actually good practice and a good example of moving the animal out of the thick brush to where you can get better photos that show the animal and antlers better.

    David King
    King’s Outdoor World

  3. Theboyd
    107 mos, 2 wks ago

    That is one ,no two fine bull elk and it doesnt really matter how you got them as long as it was a legal method of take. To those that are to petty and jealous to give you a congradulatory high five, Well they can just p&@@ off.

  4. Rich davis
    107 mos, 2 wks ago

    What a bull !!! I wish I could get one like that next year on my youth hunt in Idaho. I’d like to know the county though.
    Happy Hunting- Rich

  5. Kevin Reid
    107 mos, 2 wks ago

    Dave

    Thanks for the help in setting the story straight. The only change I would make to your story is that I do consider the taking of these bulls as “Fair Chase”. Yes they were on a private ranch that has a high fence, but I do not equate the two as necessarily going together. “Fair Chase” to me defines the method and ethics used to pursue and harvest an animal, and as Most people that have hunted on a High Fenced ranch understand, you can have a “Fair Chase” situation. Just like the opposite occurance. I have seen and heard of many hunts with “No Fences” that were not “Fair Chase” I think this determination lies with the Hunter himself to determine. Of course this issue is a huge can of worms which I will not open on your web-site, but I think every individual makes his own determination of what is “Fair Chase” wether there is a fence or not.

    Thanks for your help on clarifying the story and keep up the outstanding work you and your company do. We hunters enjoy it very much.

    Kevin

  6. Ken Hyde
    107 mos, 2 wks ago

    Isn’t anyone curious what this animal might have cost Kevin to be able to “harvest”. To me it is a sad day in the evolution of hunting that the one with the most money wins. Animals are now being “raised” and and sold according to size and amount of money it can bring. They are also now being fed with food plots and feeders to promote larger antler growth. How natural is that??? No matter how you look at it, a fence is a fence and there is no escape. It is embarressing to have to be lumped into the same category of these people that call themselves hunters. Be a real man and come out on public lands and show us how good you. I have respect for the guys that shoot impressive animals out on the publis lands, under true fairchase rules. If you have a conscience, you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and know what that means. There have been several of these so called gurus that let their over inflated egos guide them in trying to make names for themselves only to expose their true sorry souls. For example Cal Coziah and Kirk Darner.
    It is indeed an impressive rack but so are the HUGE pumpkins that are farm raised by 4H kids.

  7. elkhunter05
    107 mos, 2 wks ago

    Well all i know is that bull is FARM RAISED… you think it is at all a trophy elk by going out and pinning it Then putting an aroow in it yeah right

  8. Jeff
    107 mos, 2 wks ago

    The ranch is located near Soda Springs, Idaho.

  9. max
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    A fenced elk! What is the difference between that and killing one elk in a zoo?

  10. 7J6
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    It’s an amazing elk, he’s truly a BIG boy, but how big would he have gotten if he wouldn’t have been fed Antler Max or some other rack enhancing supplement?? Don’t get me wrong a congrats is in order, but he wasn’t a public land bull, it’s just not the same…

  11. Driz
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    Every hunting season a friend of mine would say “I have the big one tied to a tree, now I just have to find the tree!” I never really believed that tree existed.

    PS-My seven year old just picked out the biggest pumpkin at Albertsons, but it was “fair chase” conditions. Every 7 year old had the same chance at all of the pumpkins, they were surrounded by walls on all sides, and the pumpkin only cost him $7!

  12. Sean
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

    Note: free-ranging wild. High fences are not fair chase!

  13. doris
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    Just wondering why Kevin stands so far behind the elks in all his pics. Is this to make the elk look bigger than they really are? Just curious. It is an old photo trick though. Beautiful elk either way.

  14. Bernie
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    I would conceed a fair chase bull if the fenced area was big enough. It is a great looking bull.

  15. Kyle Thorn
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    How much did that hunt go for?

  16. Sean
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    The cheapest I have seen one of these ranch’s selling a 400″ bull for is $12,500. Anything above that is negotionalbe. I’m guessing over $30k

  17. Cass
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    As a Native Idahoan it sickens me to think that these ranches(slaughter pens) and “hunters” actually exist in our state. The day I have to pay for a key to a gate so I can kill an animal in an enclosed arena, I will lay down my bow and firearms for ever. Outdoorsman and Women around the country harvest “Trophy Animals” every year on public lands. Weather it be a forked horn buck, a doe or a 350 class bull elk. The “Trophy” is in the experience of the Hunt in fair chase conditions. I would hate to have to convince my daughter that the elk at the local zoo was fair game. As Outdoorsmen and Women we have a responsibility to keep our Hunting Heritage safe from high fences. We as hunters need to respect our pray. Lets keep them wild!

  18. Josh
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    Those are two very nice bulls and I think anyone would have shot them even if they were on high fence area…..and I know Kevin. I went hunting with him on the second season I didnt get to see the bull but he tried hard to get that bull….and the ranch was a 3000 acre ranch…I dont think the rancher feed the elk antler mass builder or what ever it’s called….he earned that bull.

  19. mike
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    These are both wounderful bulls and I have no quams about this guy shooting these animals. If a person wants and has the money to shell out for this kind of hunt then that is his choice. Lots of people get a guide to do their scouting for them and nobody says much about that. Dont get me wrong, these are probally two different issues because of the high fenced area versus hunting on someones private land, and paying a trespass fee or a guide on public land. All in all people pay to get large animals. It is still hunting and if a hay bail and a bucket of grain is not there to entice the animal there then you are hunting for the animal, especially if you are using a bow. No it wasn’t in the wilderness and yes he did pay to shoot thease animals but he was still hunting. To be proud of it is his progitive and choice, but i’m sure he has other hunts in places that are not paid for and what does he do with all that meat? I know a guy that pays big money for some hunts in different states and gives most of the meat to the local shelters or donates it to local programs. Does it make him a better person? I dont know, and again this is a person that pays for big animals, some people are just in it for the trophy and that is there choice. I myself hunt for meat and horns are an option. I probally won’t shoot a cow who knows. I do teach my kids to respect game and good hunting ethnics, but what’s not to say that if I did have a lot of money to shell out to hunt my dream animal and shoot one that I would or wuold not. Who knows I’m not in that position, but I’m not going to criticize a person that does. I’ll probally get flak for this posting but that is life. I’ll say it again those are nice animals and if i had the chance I think I would take advantage of it.

  20. Dave
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    In Oregon we refer to fenced areas as experimental forests. Obviously some people are a little jeaouls of Kevins achievments. I,for one, would love to have the opportunity to take an animal that impressive. Called in at 30 yards!!!!. I didn’t see ,in any of the pictures, a fence. P.S. Pumpkins are farm raised!!!!!

  21. Trent
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    These are all great stories. As a native to the area I live less than a mile from the Ranch. I’m here to set the record straight. Number 1. This ranch is basically a local petting zoo. I drive over there everytime my nephew comes down so he can pet the elk. We drive up to these elk on our four-wheeler and they come running up to the fence. They are not scared of us at all. Number 2. The ranch is not even close to 3000 acres. Maybe including the open grain fields and all. There is only about maybe 15 acres maximum that has trees on it. One little hill with a pond in the bottom. These big bulls are segregated from the cows all year. If you were segregated from females all your life and then all the sudden one is calling desperately for you……..How hard would you come running in…….I laugh every time I see these pictures.

  22. t
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    If the 447 bull was taken in Idaho it was taken illegally…There is a light on his sight and that is not legal in the state of Idaho…I’m sure that I’m not the first one that noticed that…And Im not sure if it is illegal to shoot an animal with a lighted sight on Idhao private ground…If it was taken in a High fenced area , Im not impressed…should have let it live so other people could enjoy watching such a beast strut proudly around with that awesome rack…I sure would like to see that in my neck of the woods, outside the fences I might add.

  23. t
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    I apologize and I stand corrected…People who hunt on private ground, high fenced areas are not subject to the same game/equipment laws as public ground hunters in Idaho…

    If that is a light on his sight, His equipment is perfectly legal…

    good to know stuff!!!

  24. Lee
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    Why anyone could be proud of an Elk shot on a high fence place I will never know. It is not hunting.

  25. JN
    107 mos, 1 wk ago

    To set the record straight about the ranch. I am very good friends with the owners of the ranch. The gentleman who said that there are only 15 acres of trees that are fenced. Well partner I helped build fence around about 350-400 acres on the mountain. I have been in with the bulls and seen the setup. Weather or not you agree with the fenced hunts is your own opinion. As far as these types of ranches go, this one is top notch. The hunts are as “fair chase” as you can get in this type of environment. I am not saying they are fair chase, but by ranch standards they are as close as they get. But lets not go the way of Montana and make a huge deal of this. Montana no longer allows this type of hunting. If this is what they choose to do as a business, so be it.

  26. Bionicrooster
    107 mos ago

    If Montana no longer allows this type of “hunting”, then maybe we should make a huge deal of this and “go the way of Montana”. The sooner these slaughter pens are shut down the better for hunting.

  27. JN
    107 mos ago

    I strongly disagree with shutting down the high fence hunts. It is strictly business. Personally I would never shoot a bull in a high fence. But if there are people who want to pay the money to, then so be it. What is the difference between that and a cattle rancher being payed to let someone go out and shoot one of his cattle. It is strictly business. Should we shut down regular slaughter houses then too. You have to be real careful when you start shutting down peoples businesses.

  28. Steve Minnis
    107 mos ago

    One important point that apparently has escaped your readers is the fact that hunters seldom get second chances at bull elk. If Mr. Reid had missed his 30 yard shot, what then? He probably would have retured the next day for another try. During my hunting career I’ve seen roughly 50 bull elk within bow range (30 yards or less) during the archery season. Other than the ones that were harvested, not a single elk presented itself for a second chance. If you give me unlimited opportunities to chase an animal that is confined to even 50,000 acres, I’ll be able to eventually kill it with a spear !!!

    I must say……..it was a rather brilliant idea to bring along a front end loader to relocate Mr. Reid’s game for that “better” photo. I’ll add that to my “to do” list for next years hunt.

  29. Trent
    107 mos ago

    I agree with Montana. Hunting is a sport not a business. All these high fence ranches are making our sport into “BIG BUSINESS”. I think it gives hunting a bad name. Hunting cattle never was a sport and cattle ranches have been around for decades. I see nothing wrong with having an elk ranch and using it for other purposes than hunting. Ya I see your point the one with the most money wins the biggest bull. So now we are teaching head hunting. What ever happened to hunting for meat. Last beef I bought didn’t cost 40,000 dollars. Hopefully it don’t come to that cause me and my family will starve……unless I too start an ELK FARM.

  30. MS
    107 mos ago

    First of all I want to say that I don’t agree with “High Fence Hunts”, however regarding Montana’s decision to not allow these types of hunts; what is the difference between setting up a high fence area to hunt trophy animals and setting up a private pond or lake that has trophy size fish in it for people to “pay to play”? Montana doesn’t seem to mind these! To me it is the same concept just a different specie. I feel if Montana is going to let farms and ranches set up lakes (or other forms of water where the fish would be unable to escape that property) strictly for business then they should allow these types of hunts.

  31. DG
    107 mos ago

    AS A RANCHER IN MONTANA, I HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ON THE HIGH FENCE SUBJECT,, ON ONE HAND I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCE THE TIME AND MONEY OF FIXIN FENCES DESTROYED BY THE ELK WE HAVE ON OUR PROPERTY AS WELL AS ABSORBING THE COST 200 ELK FEEDING IN OUR HAY YARDS OR GRAZING THE ALFALFA FIELDS… BELIEVE IT OR NOT ELK COST US ALOT OF MONEY.. I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH TRYING TO RE-COOP SOME OF OUR LOSES WITH FEE HUNTING…
    ON THE OTHER HAND, I AM AN AVID HUNTER AND BELIEVE IN FAIR CHASE… WHAT A LAND OWNER DOES ON HIS PROPERTY IS HIS BUSINESS I FEEL.. AFTER ALL, HE PUTS THE TIME, SWEAT, MONEY AND FUTURE INTO MAINTAINING HIS PROPERTY

  32. Steve Minnis
    107 mos ago

    The relationship between the rancher and the guy who wants to kill a captive elk is clearly no one elses business, However, the rub comes when the would-be “hunter” poses with the dead animal in magazines that are supposed to cater to the true sportsman. What’s up with SCI ? Do they accept road kills in their book?

  33. jared rasmussen
    107 mos ago

    Well I have to tell the world. I can’t take it anymore. Kevin Reid is an awesome hunter, make no more about the “high fence”. This was one of the hardest bulls to hunt in my 15 years of archery hunting experience. My brother Billy and I are the Thunder Mountain Elk Ranch Owners, in Soda Springs, Idaho. We were also Kevin’s guides during this 502 7/8″ bull taken in Sept. 2005.
    Kevin, Nugent says “YOU ROCK” and so do I man.

  34. Lee
    107 mos ago

    I have no doubt Kevin is a great hunter…too bad he wasn’t hunting the day he shot that elk.

    The problem, as someone alluded to earlier, is that these elk farms are more than commerce between someone raising an elk and joe millionaire coming over to “hunt” it. It is not hunting and it gives the pasttime many of us enjoy a bad name. Thank God that P&Y and B&C do not recognize these elk.

  35. J Westerhausen
    107 mos ago

    What did he name the bulls, Rafeal Palmero and Romanski, the steroid role models?

  36. Steve Minnis
    107 mos ago

    This is a rather stimulating forum. I wouldn’t have imagined that I would be eagerly awaiting new comments on this subject. Never the less, I do have a couple of questions for the owner of the Thunder Mountain Elk Ranch. The opening commentary states that the second bull killed by your client was actually spotted the year before. If that is true, do you think that your own prowess as a guide would have enabled you to find that same elk a year later if it had not been fenced in? If that was the toughest bull that you helped kill in your 15 years experience, how many of those 15 years were on the other side of the fence?

  37. Steve Johnson
    107 mos ago

    Gentlemen,

    This has become very entertaining. It seems as though we have touched on many different subjects as a result of these animals. I usually avoid these types of things other than the discussions I have with my buddies but I feel I need to chime in on this one and I will try to hit them all in one post.

    1. This is America and it revolves around supply and demand. This ranch provides poeple who are willing to pay for it, the opportunity to kill an animal. (Notice I said kill and not hunt). I am sure these people have a first class program with everything from accomodations to customer service. I will never criticize them for that. I however, would never pay to attend a ranch such as this to kill a farm animal.

    2. These are not wild animals. I would venture to say that these elk would never win the herd from the true ruler of the roost in the wild. They most likely wouldn’t even survive the first challenge. I have no facts to back this up, it is just my opinion.

    3. As far as comparing this to real hunting, the best scenario I can come up with is Major League Baseball Fantasy Camp. A bunch of guys get together to play baseball. They dress up in real uniforms and play some form of real baseball and even get to meet a few of their boyhood heroes. And, it comes at a price. Hitting against Nolan Ryan in his fifties, throwing 60mph is not the same as hitting against him in his prime when he was throwing 99mph.

    If you are willing to pay the money to kill a farm raised captive animal and enjoy it, then so be it. That is your right and I hope it was worth it. I think the gentleman that owns the land probably has a good business and happy customers and that’s okay too. But, the fact is, this is not hunting and these animals should never be recognized or even scored like those taken in real fair chase hunts.

    I should say this before I go. I think it would be interesting to go to a practice range where the targets were live moving animals instead of stationary paper targets or hay bails. I just don’t think I would pay thousands of dollars to do that.

  38. Sean Morgan
    107 mos ago

    I’ve bowhunted in Idaho for over thirty years and can certainly appreciate the challenge of hunting elk. If this guy who is proported to be such a great “hunter” want’s to stay inside a fenced enclosure to do his “hunting” …..so be it. The less I have to contend with other folks in the woods, the more enjoyable my experience will be. I hope more Hi-tech guys with a lot of money do the same thing.

  39. 107 mos ago

    Fair chase, Fenced in?!….What bothers me more than anything, is watching someone on a Buckmasters TV program sitting in a shack on stilts, killing a big buck, qualifies for B&C, and calling that “Fair Chase”. What chase? No doubt the buck was not fenced in but if B&C want to update the rules, let’s really update who is chasing and who is waiting for the baited buck (fence or no fence), to come in. I have fed enough deer to know how easy this can be with enough land!

  40. 107 mos ago

    For those interested in knowing more about the Mike Shipsey 502 Bull elk taken off from the San Carlos Apache Reservation, you can check out the new post here. This is at least what I know.
    http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2005/11/03/mike-shipsey-502-bull-elk-mystery/

    David King
    King’s Outdoor World

  41. I am not defending what he did, but not everyone has the time in their schedule to spend weeks at a time romping through a national forest hoping to see a trophy Bull. I am not from the west but I do have many friends who travel each year in search of a bull. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it does provide a service to people who just want a monster elk mounted on their wall. I personally enjoy the hunt more than kill but that’s just me.

  42. Jenn
    107 mos ago

    Well, I’m certainly glad that the various hunting channels and outfitters don’t promote strategic food plotting and the feed that should go in those plots since that could certainly compromise the ‘fair chase’ aspect. So would Buffalo hunting in SD on 5,000 – 10,000 acre ranches constitute fair chase. We have 7 kids to feed and I want to make sure we are playing by the rules so as not to offend anyone.

  43. Kris Peterson
    107 mos ago

    I think this type of hunting is a joke. Many of us Idaho locals enjoy going out in the National forests and pursuing our quarry on thousands of acres of unfenced land. Not only that not many of us can afford to go on unethical hunts like that. I’ve hunted elk for 4 years now and still haven’t shot one. This doesn’t bother me none due to the fact any bulls missed or passed up this year may be there next year and may even be bigger. To me hunting is a way of connecting with nature and help preserve our wildlife for generations to come. Some of you may agree and some may disagree but we are all entitled to our opinions and the above is my opinion.

  44. Max
    107 mos ago

    I shot an elk when I was 16 years old. It was a 7×7.( 1 inch 7th point, but 1 inch is 1 inch). I was very excited about my trophy bull. The funny thing is, is I got up very very early in the morning and went and set up by a water hole where we had seen them coming into early in the year. I guess I could call that a ‘fairchase” and to me there isn’t much difference. All I wish is that it could have been a 502 bull instead of a 300+ bull! Congratulations on the impressive bull!

  45. Dtag
    107 mos ago

    I am from Idaho, and am quite familiar with this Idaho ranch as well as the owners. It is a very beautiful place in the the caribou mountains. I guess I just don’t understand the ” quote quote” fair game phrase is that people talk about. As far as I know everthing on the Ranch is fair game, if you got the cash. But it seems to me that there is a jeoulosy toward people that are successful and have some wealth.
    I shot a spike elk this year standing off the side of the road, on national forest. Was this fair game?? Or should I have gotten out of my truck and fired three bullets in the air to scare it off into fairgame territory? Needless to say I backed my truck to the elk. What I would of payed for a front end loader!!!

  46. jerm
    107 mos ago

    I am also from Idaho and have had the privilege to go and see this elk ranch first hand, and I would have to tell you that it is the most beautiful place you have ever seen!!!! After reading all these comments about high fences and fair game, I’ve come to realize that there are alot of jealous people out there. I know that if the owners of this elk ranch gave away a free hunt that all you (Quote, Quote) wanna be hunters would be all over that!!! I know guys who are paying all kinds of money to go on outfitter hunts for a week and not see a thing. Why waste your money on that when you can hunt on an elk ranch and you are guaranteed an elk? If the guy has the money to do this more power to him!!!!

  47. Bill Stone
    107 mos ago

    SCI has once again proven itself as an enemy to “real” hunters. This corporate organization has sold its soul to the highest bidder and has sold out to commercialism. Neither of these animals should be in any record book, except maybe, the “Tame animals slaughtered behind a fence” record book.

  48. Sean Morgan
    107 mos ago

    Hey Dtag Buddy…………Do you know that you broke the law with your spike elk kill? You might consider staying inside the fence too. For those of you that can’t understand the concept of “FAIR CHASE” think in terms of whether the animal can get away if you miss the shot. It’s not a matter of outsmarting an animal by calling, decoying, or bating it. The issue is whether you can hunt that specific animal day after day until you kill it. If the fence prohibits the animal from escaping your efforts to kill it, then you have to ask yourself if the fence gave you an unfair advantage. It’s not rocket science !!!!

  49. Tommy
    107 mos ago

    Shooting an elk with a bow is not easy in any environment. This hunter admits to killing the elk in a high fenced area… It may not be “fair chase”, but what and accomplishment!!

  50. Dtag
    107 mos ago

    Hey Sean buddy, just what law was broken??? If you think these elk on the ranch can’t get away from a hunter, then you shouldn’t even be discussing the issue. I can see you are very uneduacated to what this elk ranch is, let me just tell ya, it is approximately a thousand acres of forest land, thats a 1000 not 10.
    And to Bill Stone, you need to go to this ranch and try befriending one of these tame animals, have you heard the saying, If you mess with the bull, your gonna get the horn??

  51. Sean Morgan
    107 mos ago

    YOU SHOT AN ELK FROM THE WINDOW OF A TRUCK ….DUH…… LET ME THINK??????? LIKE I SAID…… STAY INSIDE THE FENCE!!!!!!!! HAVE SOMEONE HELP YOU WITH YOUR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR !!

    “UNEDUACATED” Hmm………IS THAT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK ??

  52. Sean Morgan
    107 mos ago

    I’m really curious about something and would appreciate some input from the supporters of the High Fence method of killing animals. If the fence does not prevent the animals from leaving the property and it does not give the hunter multiple chances for the kill, then why bother installing it ? Given the estimated size of the property at even the low end of 400 acres, I’m sure the fence would be very expensive for the rancher.

  53. Bill Stone
    107 mos ago

    Dear Dtag,
    I would never go to this or any other ranch to hunt because it is NOT a natural hunt. By the way, I’m not familiar with your saying.

  54. Wolfman
    107 mos ago

    Kevin’s elk is an amazing animal. I live just a couple of miles from the ranch that the bull was shot at. They recieved the bull the spring of 2005 without horns. They did not know it would be so large. It was shot with a bow after a few days of hunting. Call a Spade a Spade. $$$$$$ talks, bull*#$% still walks.

  55. Operator
    107 mos ago

    I don’t have a problem with the guy spending the money to hunt an elk in this way. But… I got the straight story on how the hunt went and how it played out. Don’t try and tell we “joe Public” how hard you hunted and how much time you put in. It is a fine trophy animal, but tell it how it is and was. I’m good friends with the owners and operators of this nice ranch. They have really done a great job getting it started. They really don’t care what cock and bull story you tell your good friends, but we the Idaho locals don’t buy it. HAPPY HUNTING… ; )

  56. Lee
    107 mos ago

    Hey Jerm,
    You ask ”
    “I know guys who are paying all kinds of money to go on outfitter hunts for a week and not see a thing. Why waste your money on that when you can hunt on an elk ranch and you are guaranteed an elk? ”
    Because the former is actually hunting and the latter is not

    “I know that if the owners of this elk ranch gave away a free hunt that all you (Quote, Quote) wanna be hunters would be all over that!!! ”
    I can say with 100% conviction that if they called me right now to offer a free “hunt” I would laugh in their face. A real hunter does not need high fences.

  57. Scott s
    107 mos ago

    Hey Lee

    Your right if that Ranch were to call and offer a free hunt I would be all over it! So would anyone else that wanted a monster bull like that (well except for you).
    3000 acres is a lot of ground to cover on a hunt fenced or not.

  58. Dee Smith
    107 mos ago

    I was wondering if anyone would know how old an animal like this would be? Also I wonder if there would be any other trophy bulls that would score over 500 on this ranch? What is the ranch called?

  59. Dtag
    107 mos ago

    Once again your assuming something you have no clue about! There is not one thing said about me shooting from the window of my truck, or even anything that would make anybody think that I did. It almost sounds like you were hunting with me or something.Please try not to assume things about me in the future!!

  60. David Mcrea
    107 mos ago

    Not being from the area but don’t they put fencing around those national forests. Just curious

  61. Sean Morgan
    107 mos ago

    Well, I guess I have to admit it after all…………if the rancher offered me a 500 class bull for free …..I would take him up on it.

    However, I would insist on one condition. Before the “hunt” I would request that the rancher tranquilize the bull so I could actually score it before I decide to purchase it for slaughter. Every inch counts you know. I would also like to have different pictures of me and the animal in different poses and in a variety of “natural” settings. After all……..if it’s a “HUNT OF A LIFETIME” I would want it to be just right

  62. Sean Morgan
    107 mos ago

    Dtag, sorry I assumed that you shot the spike from the window of your truck. Since you were inside your truck and the elk was apparently outside your truck, I thought it was quite logical to assume that you shot it through your window. Given the way you sound…….. you probably shot it through your windshield.

  63. Alan
    107 mos ago

    You people have way too much time on your hands!
    In this day and age, is anything “fair chase”? We have gone from sticks and rocks, to high powered rifles with super optics, range finders, heat detectors and more. Even archery now has high powered compound bows with fancy sights and releases. Elk ranchers raise and own their elk. They are livestock. They are NOT elk taken from the wild. If someone wants to buy elk meat from them, guess what that elk must be killed somehow. If the buyer wants to go there and hunt it, is that your business? Just because you don’t want to do it, it should automatically be stopped. Well then, PETA hates the way you hunt too. Does that mean it should be stopped???
    Why can’t you just stay away from fenced hunts if you don’t like them, but stay out of the business of those who do? This is America, freedom of choice for all, not just the narrow minded.

  64. chad
    107 mos ago

    Thank you Alan
    I had two people come and harvest some bulls this year. One was happy to just get some meat beacuse it is very lean and healthey and he was tired of spending the big Dollar and not getting any meat The second one was a guy that only had one leg He was happy just to shoot a elk beacuse he would not of been able to do it in the wild SO would any of you guys against HIGH FENCE take a person that is Handicap in the wild for a week up and down the hills to find a elk probbly NOT. So this is a chance for them to Harvest a bull or a Cow He was verry Happy with his Harvest THANK YOU

  65. Steve Minnis
    107 mos ago

    Alan and Chad,

    You both raise some valid points. There is certainly an application for this method of harvesting an animal. Taking disadvantaged people out for a hunt is admirable and it also reinforces the point that so many hunters have made. It is not the same as hunting in unfenced forested land. I agree that it is no ones business except the rancher and his client. If Mr. Reid had killed the animals and kept it to himself and a few friends, no one would be the wiser. Unfortunately he didn’t. Mr. Reid wants the world to know about his “achievement” by circulating photos and trying to compare himself to sportsmen like me that hunt for the “sport” I find it ironic that Mr. Reid used a bow to kill his elk. Do you think he felt a little guilty about shooting a fenced animal with a gun? Was the bow selected to prolong the hunt beyond the first few hours or was it selected to make the event a more impressive accomplishment? As an avid archer who has hunted with a bow for years, I can tell you that success with archery equipment is directly related to the number of encounters you have. If you have an opportunity to chase an animal that cannot get away, a proficient archer will eventually make the shot. Alan…….the reason there is so much hoopla related to this issue is not because “you people” have too much time on our hands, it’s because hunters like me want to preserve the sport that we are so passionate about. I’m sure the PETA folks would be a lot more sympathetic to high fenced hunting than open range hunting. They could justify their dillusion by clinging to the idea that it is analogous to killing domestic livestock for food. I just don’t want my sport to turn into “pay to play” I think Idaho Fish and Game would probably rather see high fenced hunting also…… they wouldn’t have to bother with game management and could focus 100% of their time rather than 90% on chasing suspected poachers.

  66. Jon
    107 mos ago

    I would like to thank who ever posted these pics. WOW what a bull. If my buddy buys a new corvette you can bet he is gonna show it off. Do I hold a grudge and get jealous? no sir. Just happy for him. same as Kevin , congrats and I too am jealous.

  67. Keith
    107 mos ago

    As a native” Idahoan” the more people who see these bulls that were killed in Idaho the more will flock here to kill thier very own 400-500 class bull. Those of us who actually “hunt” know the odds of killing a bull of this size on public land in Idaho is about 1 in a BILLION but this will not stop all the wannna be Daniel Boone’s from all over the states invading Idaho. Idaho is already so infested with out of state hunters “who do not have a clue about hunting ethics”, that I am afraid to let my children out of the truck because they may be shot by some California idiot that shoots at anything that moves. So if these fenced ranches keep them out of the woods I hunt then more power to them but I am afraid it will just bring in more people because they heard Idaho is the new hot spot to take a huge bull.

  68. TGE
    106 mos, 4 wks ago

    It never ceases to amaze me how what is supposed to be the most intelligent creature on earth – mankind – displays it’s ignorance so readily in this discussion forum. That’s precisely why what happened in Montana is the perfect example of stupidity. The government let the “people” decide on something that the majority knew nothing about. Actually, it’s alot like this discussion forum. You opponents to high fence hunting have probably never experienced it for yourselves personally. So, my point is this – why should you be entitled to have an opinion about something you know nothing about???
    Maybe the best thing everyone who enjoys hunting of all types should do is get their heads out of their butts and recognize what’s really going on – the animal rights activists don’t like hunting of any kind. If we don’t stick together and preserve our right to hunt inside and outside the fence then somebody might decide to put it to a general vote of the uninformed masses?!? If that happens, the innocent elk farmers in Montana may not be the only loosers.
    There is obviously a marketplace that’s willling to support both sides of the fence so there’s room for all of us. I say, THREE CHEERS FOR SCI for recognizing all of us and preserving our right to hunt – INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE FENCE!!!

  69. Lee
    106 mos, 4 wks ago

    Alan,
    You said, “Why can’t you just stay away from fenced hunts if you don’t like them, but stay out of the business of those who do? This is America, freedom of choice for all, not just the narrow minded”
    You are missing the point. It is not about convincing PETA whack jobs on the merits of hunting, you might as well try to convince bible thumpers there is no God. You can’t do either. It is about the perception the rest of the non-hunting public has. They are o.k with actual hunting but when high fence operations claim it is a hunt, they (non-hunting public)associate real hunting with it and it indroduces a negative perception of real hunting in their minds.
    TGE said
    “THREE CHEERS FOR SCI for recognizing all of us and preserving our right to hunt – INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE FENCE!!! ”
    Inside the fence is not hunting.

  70. neil gallegos
    106 mos, 4 wks ago

    its all right if you only shot one big bull.anyway if i had shot one bulls at that size i for sure woudnt tell anyone where I went its hard to beleive that. any way nice bull and nice shot

  71. Steve Minnis
    106 mos, 4 wks ago

    The only hunting that went on with Kevin Reid is his hunt through the yellow pages for the ranch with the largest antlered elk money could buy . As far as the comment about sticking together to preserve the sport of hunting……..there will be no sport for me or others like me if we allow individuals to compare what we do with what Kevin Reid did. If you join Safari Club International, you will quickly see that it is not an organization for the average income hunter. They support this type of harvesting animals because their membership is largely comprised of wealthy folks that are not exactly what you would expect to see climbing steep mountains chasing Idaho elk. I believe that “only in America” can one hunt for free on open range land. Europe and many other countries that alllow hunting have structured their hunts similar to the now infamous ranch in eastern Idaho. If you want hunting to become proprietary in nature where only the rich can afford it, then I quess you should support the raising and killing of captive animals.

  72. RLM
    106 mos, 4 wks ago

    What an interesting blog! I think the elk are indeed beautiful and HUGE but the question is…Should these elk qualify as a record for an archery hunt? NO! Only if they come up with a new standard for ranch animal records. This is much like catching the biggest fish in the hatchery! A hunting ranch is a great idea for the person who has the money, but no time for a “REAL” hunt. But to compare this to a trophy of the true hunter who has successfully hunted his game in the wild is like comparing a tricycle to a Harley. The ranch animals are not only raised with unlimited food supply throughout the year…they are accustomed to humans, they are enclosed (doesnt matter what size they are imprisoned in) and for a bow hunter to have the opportunity to have a shot at an elk that size is one thing but to kill one 2 years in a row…not likely. I do not think one single “hunter” on this site would be even the slightest bit jealous of shooting an elk of any size in a fenced area. The ones on here that think it dont matter are the true jealous ones because they know they could never compete in the real hunting world.

  73. JN
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    Dee Smith,
    The ranch is called “Thunder Mountain Elk Ranch.” I talked to the owners last night on the phone. They said they think they may have one bull that is even bigger than the one causing all the ruckus on here. I have known the owners for a number of years and you will never meet nicer guys. The ranch is located south of Soda Springs, Idaho. It really is one of the most beautiful settings I have ever seen. Now everyone take your turn bashing on me for being friends with these guys. One word of comfort for us die hard hunters. And I did say us, I am an avid hunter and would not “high fence hunt.” I don’t know what all the concearn is about these bulls will never make it to the B&C or the P&Y books. So if you don’t like it don’t pay any mind to the SCI.

  74. Kris Peterson
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    As a native Idahoan I agree with Keith. I think that there are too many out of state hunters in our beautiful state. There are several times I’ve gone out in the woods and run into an out of state hunter who just shoots at anything that moves there has been several times I’ve been on a hillside stalking an animal and have had it shot right out from under me. I was in plain sight wearing orange and when I confronted the guy he said first come first serve this is why I now hunt on land where there is no road access because I don’t feel safe. I just think that the fact the out state hunters come in by the dozens each year makes the trophys less scarce.

  75. Mark
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    Wow, I’ve just spent about an hour of my life reading a whole load of horse pocky. Who cares if the elk was in a fence. The man shot an elk that was bought , fed and then sold to someone who wanted a big head on his wall. Open up any bass pro catalog and you’ll find seeds for sell that claim to produce larger antlers. Go into any national forest and you’ll find mineral salt blocks, hay bales and planted food plots that are placed there by so called ehtical hunters in hope that they will create a honey hole that is full of big horned game. I spent many years in the woods during hunting season. Not as a hunter ,but as a warden, and I can tell you this, 90% of the so called ehtical hunters I met were in violation of some state or federal law. High fence ranches don’t give hunters a bad name, idiots, claiming to be ethical Hunters do! If the only reason you are out in the woods is to bag a record elk or deer to make a name for yourself or worst yet, for the big money, you are missing the target. Being out in the woods is the adventure, and you can do that in a fence or on the other side looking in. I now own a ranch in New Mexico. We are blessed with hugh elk. On three sides of the ranch we are bordered by national forest. Each year I find foot prints crossing on to our private land by hunters. They come into our posted property because we don’t chase the elk from hill to hill with 4 wheelers. If I put up a fence to keep them out, I guess by your standards my hunters would be a bunch of sissies with money. Learn to enjoy the sport of hunting and don’t get caught up in the world of horn hunting. You’ll then be able to truly enjoy the outdoor experience. Take your kids. Take your wife to the woods. Who cares if they make a noise and scare off a buck or bull. You’ll be making memories that will out last that head on the wall. You’ll also enjoy your time in the woods a lot more if, your not looking over your shoulder for the game warden. Hunt legal and enjoy your time in the woods.

  76. Operator
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    For all of those out there who know the owners of “Thunder Mountain Elk Ranch” I would like to say that I agree. You will not meet a nicer bunch of guys. They have worked hard to get it going and they have done a beautiful job. You could not pick a better location. I have recently spoke with one of the owners and they have many bulls that score well into the 450 range. All of this though, is so stupid. Dont you girls out there get your panties in a bunch. I am sure if you work hard enough you can get your trophys. Just as Kevin did. Not only hunting but also building his business so that he may fund such a once in a lifetime experience. I myself would not pay to hunt in such and way but “Whatever floats your boat”.

  77. Jody
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    I just completed a hunt on National Forest Land in Colorado. Does fair chase include a bunch of unrelated hunters lined up on public land (just off the road edge, sitting in pickups, with their guns laying on the ground or against the truck) waiting for the herds to migrate off the private land to get to there wintering grounds? You could definitely here when a herd went for it as it would sound like WWIII as all the hunters opened fire. Some other hunters who witnessed this said they would shoot as far as 700 yards at the herd. Must have been flock shooting. Then, every once in a while you would here trucks peeling around on the roads and shots continuing!! Must have missed the herd bull on his first attempt to break across the flatland, usually though the shots would quit and the truck engines would die out. I figure that must be when they finally laid the bull out. Anyways, I thought this would be interesting food for thought.
    By the way, I was unsuccessful on filling my tag. I guess I may have been hiking to far into the wilderness designated areas when I should have joined some of the crowds along the road edges!!

  78. Fred
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    High fences and farm raised animals do not equate to a fair chase hunt. This is nothing other than a “canned hunt” and should never be called ethical.

  79. 106 mos, 3 wks ago

    And sitting in a “shack on stilts” and waiting for the baited buck to come in apparently is an OK “fair chase” situation by B&C as long as there is no fence! If you are baiting a buck, your are basically farm raising your future kill. Look at the ads on how growing food plots, putting out certain grains and so forth enhance horn growth. Unfortunately we are at the point where rules, like steroids in baseball, are a little cloudy. “He who legally kills, feeds, baits, or picks up the biggest horns, should go the spoils.”

  80. Bob
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    I have personal knowledge that the 502 bull was harvested at Thunder Mountain elk ranch, near Soda Springs Idaho. The other bull is a high fence bull too, not sure if it was the same operation or one near Island Park Idaho. Moooooooooooo. No fair chase, like hosing a cow.

  81. Mark
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    I don’t think there is a solution to this topic. We humans like the biggest and best. We always try to out do our neighbor. We will continue to go into the woods in hopes of taking the biggest buck or bull. It’s the herds that come out at the bottom. We are leaving the ( better tasting ) smaller weaker bucks and bulls to pass on their genes to the future herd. Most of us want to hunt when the bulls and bucks are breeding. Wow, what a rush to see a hugh screaming bull come into your cow call. The only thing that can beat that , is the feeling I get when I don’t take him. A prized photo or video of the meeting we had is much more enjoyable. Plus I already have a 10X11 398 1/2 on the wall. They might be only sheds that I found, but he sure looks good in the cabin.

  82. Tom
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    Congrates on your Big Bull; however was it a fair chase or paid hunt on a Elk Ranch? I gave up hunting years ago because of the expense of hunting on private ranches (non-game rasied ranches) I never hunted on game raised ranches (Wild game Ranches) nor would I ever there is no sport in that nor is there sport in hiring a guide, they know where the game is whats the sport in that.

  83. MIKE111
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    Why haven’t we heard from Kevin Reid the real story on how these bulls were killed. If he is going to put them on the internet, let’s hear the story. He wasn’t very upfront about them being fair chase, or there wouldn’t have been questions about them when they were posted.

    By the way I don’t think too many on here are jealus of these bulls, how could you? I just like it when real hunters get the fame instead of him.

  84. Will
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    I have to agree with what some people have said before me. You people hunt whitetails on feeders and crops you planted for them to eat…. aka baiting them!!! This guy hunted on a large piece of property with a fence and took two huge bulls! If you think that him hunting in a fenced area then maybe you hunters that bait whitetails or even bears should go and figure out how what he did is different from what you did! Mike111 I really do think that a lot of the people replying to this story are jealous of the bulls because they are so big and there might never be any that size again. He is a hunter through and through by definition so maybe you people should think about these things before you start giving out criticism!

  85. CD
    106 mos, 3 wks ago

    Will,

    This man did not “HUNT” on a large piece of property. He might as well walked into a Wal-mart and arrowed the beef tenderlion laying on the counter. I shot a 150 class Mule Deer buck this year out of a tree stand miles from any fence. Most of my succes came from out-smarting my pray and alot of luck. Not from cornering him against a fence. I agree with Mike111. How come we have’nt heard from Kevin? Maybe he should tell his story. And if Kevin wants to come to Idaho and hunt real elk…come on, I’ll even cow call for him.

  86. Mike111,

    Let me see if I can help answer a few questions that you brought up in comment #84. You mention why we have not heard from Kevin Reid. This post in general is from Kevin Reid giving me the details on the hunt and his bulls to help clear up the rumors that have been circulating around the Internet. When his bull started ciruculating through emails and message boards, I myself wanted to know what was going on. I therefore, went to the source. I was able to find out who the hunter was and eventually contact him. I personally talked with Kevin Reid over the phone about these two huge bull elk and got the answers I was looking for.

    Kevin was very up front about the situation and I could sense a little frustration about what had transpired beyone his control. Because of this he agreed to let me tell his side of the story and post it along with permission to post the photos of his elk. At the time of this post, I don’t believe there was any other web site that was actually posting the photos of his elk with his permission or consent.

    Between the post that I made about his elk and a brief history, you can get an idea of what Kevin’s story is. If you scroll back up and read comment post #6, it is from Kevin personally commenting on the post and adding some addtional thoughts that he has about the hunt and the elk. This is his story.

    My intention on posting this information was not about whether you agree with high fenced hunting or not. There is a very good debate and many great points have been posted for and against high fenced hunting. It is making for some great discussion and allowing people to learn and share their own views and experiences. The purpose of this post was to clear the rumors about these two bulls. Rumors were spreading at an all-time high and nobody had any relevant information to help the cause.

    From what I understand, Kevin Reid did not post any photos of his bulls on any web site to start these rumors. He emailed the photos of his bulls to a small group of close friends. Unfortunately the photos started getting forwarded to other people and it extended beyone the control of including the correct information along with the photos within the emails. Over time, these photos started making it on to message boards with wild claims that Joe-Bob anyone decided to make because their uncle thought he heard something that a guy at work overheard….you know what I mean.

    So to accuse Kevin of purposely trying to deceive the public over these bulls is not correct. Again, that is the reason for this post. After reading the post again, in addition to comment #6, what other information would you like to know from Kevin Reid? He clearly has he views on hunting that maybe not everyone would agree upon. However, he was clear and upfront about them. Therefore, I respect that. I can still do that regardless of whether I agree with high fenced hunting or not.

    Thanks for the continued comments.

    David King
    King’s Outdoor World

  87. Will
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    well fellas it seems some people just got their foot firmly inserted into their mouths!

  88. trc
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    I think he’s a stud fenced or not fenced.

  89. 106 mos, 2 wks ago

    We have a hunting ranch that is 1,000 acres, in the PA mountains. Fact is, there is a fence around it and while the elk can’t run to the next piece of property to run away, the place is all forrested, and a difficult hunt. The vast majority of the elk there were either born wild, or put in when they were very young. They are elusive. Is it as difficult as taking a bull in the wild? No. Personally, I have spent many years hunting deer and elk in the west, only to be dissappointed from the over hunted herds and closed off access to public lands. While many people are happy to fund a situation where they can have a higher quality hunting experience, it is odd that so many are so vocally against it. My guess is that the nay-sayers would go on a hunt like this, if they had the opportunity to do so. To be so vocally sure that it is a “turkey shoot” while never having been on one, demonstrates a closed mind, and an attitude that is really very un-American, in regard to personal freedoms.

    Open your minds guys, this is America. If you don’t like it, don’t go.

  90. Harmon Silloway
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    High fence…. enough said….

    I just can’t believe he is smiling.

  91. Elk Hunter
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    It looks to me as a bunch of small minded people, pointing fingers at a guy who had an amazing adventure. My hat is off to this guy for the adventure that he has experienced, and the fact that he has been successful enough in his life to afford such a thing.

    Like it or not, we live in a world where there is far too much hunting pressure, and the result is far too few trophy elk out there. I myself am saving up to go to a private ranch where I hope to score on a big 6 x 6 elk. I am too tired of the public land hunting where I have hunted, year after year, and if I am lucky only see a spike or some cows, if I am lucky.

    To those of you small minded types, you sound like PETA members in disguise.

  92. Hunter
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    Go ahead and joke about PETA. These kinds of hunts provide the ammunition they need. Remember most of the country doesn’t hunt and they vote! We need to keep them on our side, PETA will work do the opposite. Who will win? Will your grandkids get to hunt? Can CA residents hunt mountain lions? Think about it!

    Enjoy your mineral licking / breeding program bull! Someday you won’t be able to shoot it on either side of a high fence. I’ll stick to the 380 bulls I see in the wild every year that hand my ass to me every time I try to kill one. That’s hunting!

    By the way, Kevin, don’t say you don’t want to “Open that can of worms” and then post it on a blog. That made me laugh. Thanks!

  93. Hunter
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    Josh

    The bull was raised in Montana, sold to Idaho and killed there. IT wasn’t born and raised on that 3000 acres. By the way 3000 acres lost to free roaming wildlife forever.

  94. Hunter
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    Lee

    Well Put!

  95. Mark
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    My wife and I have been blessed to own a private ranch in New Mexico. We removed all the cattle 7 years ago and have put thousands in to wildlife habitat improvements. We only allow 8 hunts a year for Elk and 4 mule deer hunts. We do not buy ranch raised elk or deer. All of the game that is on our ranch is native free ranging state owned animals. We are surrounded by national forrest. Our boundry fence is 4 foot high which allows game to come and go as they please. Because there is no pressure from our side of the fence, We have the herds on us during the hunting season. We are very selective in what bulls and bucks are taken, 5X5 or better. Bulls that have been taken in the last few years have been 350 class or better and we have been seeing bulls pushing 400 for the last few years. Because we have spent the money on habitat improvements, provide free ranging feed, shelter and water to the herds on our deeded land and because we provide ethical hunts to manage the herds, the state provides us with elk tags that we can sell to help fund our wildlife management plan. We were awarded an award for ranch of the year last year for our committment to the land and wildlife. We sell our tags to an outdoor hunting show that sells them to hunters from around the country that want to experience a hunt of a life time. We have a new hunting cabin that sleeps 4, we provide home cooking and we have a walk in cooler to insure game does not spoil. If any one is interrested in more info., contact Dr. Tom Lavalle 505-401-0115

  96. Hunter
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    Great Mark

    Great for the wildlife but does nothing for the future of hunting. Only the wealthy hunt the ranch. If only the Kennedy’s & Bush’s get to hunt, then the future of hunting is domed. Do we live in Great Britian or Germany????? Thank goodness for the public land that we have or there would be nothing!!

    Sounds like a great ranch, however, and I’m glad to hear that you love the wildlife.

    Consider doing something for the folks that bag your groceries or the teachers and coaches who help turn your kids into productive citizens.

  97. 106 mos, 2 wks ago

    Continuing to comment negatively one way or the other on this harvest plays right into the hands of the people who want to end all hunting and fishing rights. Most great battles are won by first dividing the enemy, and we’re dividing our ranks for them. Appreciate the freedoms you have to chose on what you like or don’t like, and allow others to do the same, but stay united on our rights to hunt and fish, public or private. I hunt public land with no desire to hunt high fence, but I have no problem with those who do. The earths population is only getting bigger and God isn’t making more dirt. If someone has private property (that I can’t access anyway) and they want to offer a hunting or (harvest) opportunity to someone who would enjoy it and can afford it, then that’s their right, and for those of us who hunt public lands, that could be one less hunter vying for our spot. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder.

  98. Steve Johnson
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    Tevis at post 98 makes a great point. Agree or disagree and state your point but don’t make these personal attacks. It’s okay to disagree. Don’t worry too much about spelling or grammar. It’s not that big of deal.

    We really do have to protect hunting all the way around or our kids may not get to enjoy what we are arguing about right now. When I posted earlier (post 38) I tried to express my opinions on “fair chase” vs “fenced” or “hunting vs killing”. I don’t like the situation in which this bull was taken regardless of his size. Obviously some don’t have a problem with it.

    In regards to Elk Hunter on post 92 that says he is tired of hunting and only finding spikes or cows on public land, there is a good reason for that: The big dudes are harder to find because they can escape. Farm animals in high fence ranches cannot. Free range animals are smarter. Have you ever noticed how many times you have seen a trophy animal just on the other side of the posted sign or just inside the Indian Land? I don’t think it is because they can read. It is because they know they won’t get shot (chased) in there. (Maybe not I just thought that was a cool scenario).

    To all of you that own hunting ranches, I will never bash you for that. I am merely saying that you will never have me as a customer. To Elk Guy on post 90, I think you under estimate a lot of these guys. They are not jealous about this elk, they are just passionate about their hunting. I would like to test the theory that some have brought up that they all would jump at the chance if the hunt was free because I disagree with that thought.

    I would like to see one of the ranch owners that have posted here to contact any one of the guys that posted on here that say they are against this type of thing and offer them a free hunt. Make them responsible for travel expenses etc, but the hunt is free. See how many of them turn it down. What do you have to lose? Look at the marketing. Read the headline. “Naysayer kills trophy bull”. If he comes back from this adventure with a change of attitude and puts the rest of us straight, you could get some new clients. (Or, he will just take a beating from the rest of us like Kevin Reid has but that will be fun too).

    I do okay and could probably afford such a hunt if I planned properly but I still would not do it. I hunt because I enjoy it, not because I can afford it. This would not be enjoyable to me. I have a son that just turned 14 on Nov 19th. My older son did not have a real interest in hunting or fishing like this one does. I am sure many of you know what kind of excitement he and I have had and will continue to share for many years.

  99. Todd Smith
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    MARK AND DR. TOM LAVALLE,

    Hey I REALLY enjoyed your advertisement on comment #96… Doesn’t it feel good to put down other ways of business to sell some of your ways!

  100. chad
    106 mos, 2 wks ago

    To change the subject I heard on 700 WLW am out of Cinn Ohio that the Humain Socity is trying to stop youth hunting out there. That is one way to get the people not to hunt. Stopping the future generation then it will die out . So i think we all should get along (High fence or fair chase)becuse if they stop one or the other they will come after you too

  101. Mark
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    Hey Hunter #97, I’m happy to report to you that I believe as you do, I’m sorry to say, It is just impossible to open the ranch and let folks come in and hunt anymore. Due to the many bad experiences we have had in the past, we are no longer able to open our ranch to the public. ( I wish David King would start a forum about bad hunting experiences and unethical hunters that give hunting and outdoorsmen a bad name) that could be real valuable to us all. Although we no longer allow just any hunter to roam the ranch like we use to in years past, we donate hunts that we can guide and outfit to local and national charities. Last year we gave a fully guided Bull elk hunt to the American Disabled Vetrans in Albq. NM to raffle off at $10.00 a ticket. That hunt, I’m proud to say, raised over $10,000.00 for them. My wife and I sold about half of those tickets at our gift shop. We did not, nor would we have accepted any money from that hunt. It cost us a $3,500.00 tag and about $400.00 in food, but was worth every penny. We also donated a youth hunt this year that was turned into a TV show in hopes that it would excite other kids to pick up the sport of hunting and spending time oudoors with thier parents. We have allowed disabled hunters to hunt the ranch to give them a better chance at taking a buck than what they would have on public land. One of these hunters was buzzed a number of times by a local hunter flying a powered parachute. I don’t think he knew the disabled hunter was there. I think he was just trying to drive the elk and deer off our land on to the national forrest.
    This year we are donating all of our turkey hunts to raise money for a christian charity that works with the poor. I hope to sell 12 three day turkey hunts here on the ranch for over $1,000.00 each. I know that is a lot of money for a $300.00 hunt, but I know God will find me 12 hunters or a Company that are willing to spend that kind of money knowing it will go to children in need. 505-862-8888
    Hunter , I have been blessed these last 10 years since finding Jesus, I went from being homeless and not even able to afford a public land hunt to owning a private ranch. We do what we can here. I’ll telll you this, every penny that is made off of our tags goes right back in to the habitat improvements. Windmills are about $30,000.00 each. Water wells run about $3,000.00 to $6,000.00 each to drill. A 50lb bags of native grass seed is over $200.00 and will only seed about 10 to 20 acres. Repairing fences from elk damage, is a daily chore here and fence material is not cheap. We constructed a 6 mile fence last summer to corden off a creek we are rehabing. that project alone cost over $25,000.00 not counting our time and labor, all summer. My wife and I make our living from a small gift shop that we own, and much of the profits from that go in to the ranch.
    I bet that I would be safe in saying that most ranchers that sell hunts, put that money right back in to the land plus more.
    As for Todd # 100, After rereading my comments, I guess your right, it does sound as if I’m putting down ranches that raise game to harvest. I’m sorry. I did not mean to make it sound that way. I was trying to let people know that we do not operate a high fence ranch. The owners of those type of operations spend a whole lot more than we do to keep thier ranches up and going. I can not imagine what they spend to run that kind of hunting ranch. When you start to think about feed, vet care, fences, land costs, lodging costs, habitat improvements and just the daily labor costs, it’s no wonder they HAVE to charge the prices they do. Hunters paying those kinds of prices need something special to hunt. God bless them and good luck.
    This has been a very interesting and enjoyable forum. I have learned a few things here that will only make me a better outdoorsman and land owner. Thanks all.

  102. Hunter
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    Mark

    I agree that some of the public shouldn’t be hunting because of their lack of ethics and behaivor. Unfortanately, I probably have seen it more than you. However, there are good well behaved hunters out there that are not wealthy and that will treat you with respect and follow your rules while hunting your ranch. I have never thought wide open hunting was the only way to go, nor will I ever. I like and respect your raffle / charity commintments and the fact that you commit so much $ back to the infrastructure of the ranch. Just consider allowing some of the general public the opportunity to enjoy what you built. Sounds like you used to be down on your luck and probably would have loved the opportunity to hunt a ranch like you own now. Something to think about.

  103. Mark
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    Hunter,
    we do allow a few good public hunters to hunt the ranch at no charge. these are the disabled hunters ( mule deer)and the youth hunts ( cow elk) I spoke of. we do not allow just any one on the ranch, and can’t afford to allow too many. The state of NM gives us the opion of receiving unit wide tags or ranch only tags. If we took the unit wide tags our hunters could hunt both the ranch and surrounding forrest, but we would have to allow the general public access to our private lands. That is where we have the problems. I don’t know how the hunters in your area hunt, but it is not unusal to see a pickup truck filled with a bunch of drunk men from the reservation or Gallup come driving do the road with gun barrals out the window during bow season. I have called the game warden about 6 times in the last 3 years about trucks abbandoned on our property after they cut our fence and got stuck or broke down. The hunters were gone but they left thier truck, beer cans and other trash on us. No thanks, we will stick to ranch only tags. This allows us to keep our lands open to only those that are invited and not just any knot head from town with a case of beer and a 4 wheel drive. Our management plan calls for only 6 bulls a year to be taken. that is why we only have 8 hunts a year right now. We keep our cow hunts and give them to youths, our pastor at church and a few other local families that need the meat. But, we must keep the nice bulls for the paying hunters so that we can make the money for our habitat projects. we allow other hunters that have contacted us to come in and hunt the ranch for other game , such as prarie dogs, coyotes, bears, bobcats and lions. We do this as part of the wildlife plan. So far, these hunters have been great. Thanks again. Mark

  104. Hunter
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    Mark
    I know all about those types of hunters. They don’t deserve to hunt anywhere. However, they don’t represent the general hunting public as a whole. They are only a fraction of it! Don’t allow the bad apples to influence your preception of all hunters. You will probably find that some, not all of your paying clients have committed simular or worse wildlife violations or other crimes and they still get to hunt. I understand that you probably don’t have time to do backgrounds on them, but you may be surprised. Again, something to think about.

  105. idaho guide
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    What is the difference between buying and elk in a High Fence. Or going to a “charity auction” and buying a govenor’s or conservation tag. Either way you are buying you elk.

  106. Hunter 23
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    An Elk is an Elk and that is a great accomplishment (even though it you could probably pet it)

  107. dave
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    il wonder if we have any elk like that in new mexico

  108. dave
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    nah

  109. Lyda
    106 mos, 1 wk ago

    I have hunted for 40 years the last 6 years I have been Disabled, but I have got my cow elk every year in last 6 years and I stell love hunting, and being in the mt. here in Or. I am 60 and hope to stell be going hunting for deer and elk, my son go’s with me. he would love to get a bull like those, and I would be happy for him for he has helped me out so much. I think it’s o.k to hunt on a farm . great job Kevin keep it up

  110. dt
    106 mos ago

    I’ve been hunting elk for about 7 years now in Colorado. I have never seen an animal this big, but I was close to a nice one (350 class) on public land. I wouldn’t like to hunt on private land, but to someone else it might be a rush, good for them. I’m sure it is still a challenge.
    The important thing is to take a great memory and story back with you. I hope it was a great hunt Kevin, and that is an awesome bull.

    P.S. Good luck to all the other hunters!

  111. Kelly Kelso
    106 mos ago

    I have been so eager to post, i am only 13 years old and this was my first year hunting. I have had a great experience with duck, dove, chukar, and even deer hunting. But hunting on private land that is only 1000 acres is like cutting a ducks wings off and shooting it from 3 feet away with a cannon! I may be 13 and i am speaking for the youth hunters who are actually “hunters” i probably know more about ethical hunting than 80% of you who post on here. And Elk hunter you give hunting a bad name change your name to Elk Butcher then it would suit you better. Sure it is a nice bull if you are to lazy to go out into the “wild” in case you dont know what the wild is its the place where animals without fences go and liveand “real” hunters hunt them, the bull is big but i would rather “hunt” a cow elk than go and pay for my lazyness and kill a 500+ bull. So if you want to pay your way to slaughter a bull elk that is probably more intelligent than you just think why where you to lazy to go out and kill your own in the wild the “huntersway”

  112. theo
    106 mos ago

    kelly, You’ve hunted for one year and you think your the worlds greatest hunter….. Dont flatter yourself!!! I dont think you’ve ever hunted on a private ranch, so until you do, i would just shut my mouth because its harder than most people think!

  113. Kelly Kelso
    106 mos ago

    Well you probably cant hunt worth crap and ive out shot lost of older people even if i have hunted for 1 year. just because your to lazy to go out and and actulay “hunt” ,you know you should try it some time, doest mean your huge bull elk that was well lets say cornered doest mean it should go into the record book. and Theo saying hunting an elk in a box is hard then you must not be able to hit the broad side of a barn with an arrow!!!

  114. Steve Minnis
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Theo, i certainly don’t know how old you are but it’s pretty sad that you chastise a 13 year old for having the gumption to post on this site. He may not be as articulate as someone with more years but he certainly has some passion for his new sport. I for one am very impressed that after only one yeare of hunting, this young sportsman understands the concept of fair chase.

  115. theo
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Steve, Thats good kelly likes to hunt, i dont see anything wrong with that, its when he starts putting down something he doesnt know anything about…. thats what really bugs me…oh and kelly i’ve shot five elk with my bow on public property and have walked countless miles, but it sounds like you’ve walked and shot more than anybody on this site, so why dont you teach us all how to hunt!!!!!!!

  116. Jayson
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Hey Kelly keep up the good work the young sportsman are the future of hunting!!!!! It sounds like someone has taught you the importance of hunting not killing for me and many others the hunt is what counts the memories you take home and the stories you get to tell for years to come. The harvest of any game should be a incredible moment in your life no matter how big or small.I think some hunters forget the excitment of being a new hunter wether they are 13 or 50.I have been lucky enough to harvest several animals and have wonderful memories and stories for each one.I think some hunters forget how great the hunt is and just want to kill or maybe they are in a place where they think that the only way to harvest a monster is to pay for it I really don’t know.I do know that a ranch hunt isn’t for me or the small handfull of sportsmen I hunt with.

    Theo hey give the kid a break I have to agree with Steve it’s great to know that the future of our sport will continue to grow thanks to the youth hunter without them there is no future for hunting.One of my biggest fears where I live is that the DWR will get fed up with trying to manage the herds and dealing with the tree huggers and they will turn all our big game hunting over to private ranches. I hope you haven’t forgotten how exciting it was to be new to hunting we should all be takeing youth hunters out in the field teaching them good ethics and secureing the future of a sport that for a good percentage of us we have gotten so much out of!!!!!!!!!!!

  117. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Well its good to see that at least some people know what hunting and fair chase is, so im not alone. Im surprised that if anyone really killed 5 elk with their bow under fair chase conditions that they would support slaughtering penned up animals

  118. chad
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sound like Kelly had some help by his dad to write all that in response 112

  119. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    you wish i had help just because you cant come up with anything else to say and your jelous that im in 8th grade and can be more creative than you.

  120. theo
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Kelly………I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your not the hunter you think your are. You would think that a mature thirteen year old like yourself would know that people that have hunted for 10 to 15 years would know a little more about it than you!!!! It sounds like you’ve been hunting for 20 years. Let me just tell you this…….have you ever been on an elk ranch or seen one? You’ve never hunted on one, but you sit there and you critisize them for something you dont know anything about, so until you hunt on one or even see an elk ranch, you should keep your opinions to yourself!!!!!

  121. Pleth
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Easy does it Theo! ooooowwww!!!!!

  122. stalker
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    yo, theo, sounds like your a little cocky youself and i bet it makes you feel real good to critisize a thirteeen year-old. man, i’m only 15, but i’ve hunted fair chase and this year i hiked my a#@ off. i passed up prabably ten big bucks and never killed a thing. now that is hunting. not walking in a pen and killing a pen raised bull.

  123. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    THeo, GIve it a Rest.

  124. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 4 wks ago

    Theo, one last comment to you. As a matter of fact I have been on an elk ranch. Each year I help feed wild elk during the winter. The elk come right up to the wagon I’m riding on, and eat the hay bales that you’re sitting on. I guess I could stick one with an arrow, the problem is I would have to lean back in order to draw my bow because they are so close. Is that the kind of elk hunting that you are used to?

  125. theo
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Kelly, no i’ve never killed an elk out of season riding on a hay wagon feeding winter range elk………Is that an elk ranch?

  126. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Debating an idiot is like trying to milk a boar hog. You aint goin to get no milk and just look foolish.

  127. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    REDNECK HUNTER BAGS MISSISSIPPI MULE JACK DEER
    I’ll tell about real huntin boys. i been huntin the same patch of creek bottom for near 2 years now tryin to get me a torphy to hang on my wall like my cuzin Dew knot has on his wall. Cuzin dew is the local taxedermatist, and has and knows about all the animals here in Miississippi.
    It all started a while back when I visited him to return his box of sears craftsman wrenchs. Sho some of the wrench was missin , but only the ones that no one ever uses much, and the box I returned them in was not the cheap plastic one they came in from the factory. I just thought the flowery tin box my wife used to keep her sowing stuff in made the wrenchs sound good when they mixed around in it. Plus the cheap plastic box was better to tote fish lures in instead of a brown paper bag where the hooks could poke out and get ya.
    Any ways, I noticed layin there on Dew Knots garage floor that he had the most beautiful animal head I’d ever seen hangin on his wall right next to the kings huntin callander. I put a toe hook to the face move on him and rolled him off my chest to get a better look at the critter. It wasn’t that big, but it was like nothin I’d ever seen. Maybe cuz I’d never seen one of these critters before. Dew told me that it was a Mississippi mule jack deer, half jackrabbit and half western mule deer, the results of some crazed goverment expirerment gone bad . They was very rare, but he told me after a couple minutes of my famus half nelson mixed with a nose twister pantie wedger, that some had been breedin down in old mans Johnson creek woods, and that he had found this one dead on the bridge that crosses over the creek. He brung it home and stuffed it up real good and hung it on the wall.
    I checked with our local game kastopo, Officer Luke ( stop runnin or I’ll shoot ) brown, and he told me there was no such animal. Now, I knowed I was on to somethin. If cuzin Dew had one on the wall and if the game warden was tryin to keep them a secret, they must be very rare and if they is rare they must be valuable. And since acordin to Ol’ stop runnin or I’ll shoot says there aint no such critter, then I figure there aint no season on em. Now stop right there boys, I know what yer thinkin. i’m just a low life horn hunter. Wrong, wrong, I plan on eatin the meat even if it’s taste wirst than fried skunk, which kind of taste like fried coon , which taste like possum , which taste like all the other critters I have found dead on state road 212 after a busy night of pool husselin down at dukes bar and bait shop.
    I tell ya boys, if you want some real huntin, try Mississsippi mule jack deer huntin. Them buggers don’t come out at all in the light. so, you can’t ever see em. coon hounds can’t track em cuz they jump too far at a time to keep a good track goin and don’t even think about night shinin, they can hear ya comin a mile away and just keep real still with thier eye balls closed til ya drive pass em.
    I been sittin in the creek bottom now about every other night from about midnite til almost sun up for the last 2 years tryin to bag me a trophy jack deer bull. I don’t hunt no high fence places. I tend to like the ones you can just kind of push down the top wire and scoot one leg over at a time fence places, and since ol’ man Johnson only has a four wire short fence, it’s easy to sneak in and out of. You other fellas that keep talkin about fair chase huntin, I have found it is a hole lot easyer to shoot a critter if you don’t chase it. Try sittin real still in some bushes or in a hollow log and wait for the critter to walk by. then shoot it. that little piece of advice might stop all your complaining about how you can’t seem to get you a bull on public land.
    Well got to go . the suns goin down and I’m going to try somethin new to night. My other cuzin, Stumpy Jones is goin huntin with me tonite. Stump works for the railroad blowin track line through the swamp with dynomite. He has a plan on how we might get one of them Mule jack deers. We might just get the whole herd if his plan works out. Ya all take care. Bubba

  128. JP
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Mark, it’s pretty scary that someone gave you access to a computer…..do they let you drive a car too???

  129. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Real men don’t drive no cars JP, unless it’s around and round at the dirt track. real men drive trucks. I got a 1955 Ford F100 . thanks for the reply. Bubba

  130. Hunter 23
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    wow mark you sound real inteligent. Id take a lot of advice from you. BUBBA:)

  131. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Hunter 23, If you thought that little tip I gave about not chasin the critters you are tryin to shoot was somethin, you is goin to like my new book that is being sold down to Dukes bar and bait shop. It’s jam packed with goodins.
    chaptor 1, H2o + electriserty = FISH FRY
    chaptor 2, apple and hammer huntin at the petin zoo
    chaptor 3, ethics shmethics, i want to kill somethin
    chaptor 4, poachin, the other huntin season

  132. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Dear, Mark take a hint YOUR NOT FUNNY. You might think your funny but to me your just a person trying to make fun of hunting because you know you cant do it yourself. Its like people say act you age not your IQ.

  133. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Sorry kid. I know that last one was a bit uncalled for.I was just tryin to lightin up this site a bit. I promise not to write anymore smart comments . I bet your just a hoot to have around deer camp.

  134. j larsen
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    What a bunch of BULL ____. I dont think this guy should even show his face on here talking about this huge bull he killed in a zoo.

  135. tod L
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Who cares where it was killed……… killing is killing……. all hunting is murder and all hunting of all sorts should be shut down and let organizations control the populations without killing any of our precious animals. They were not put here for your fun

  136. Keith
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Hey Tod L, either stay in California or move back there.

  137. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Dear Tod L, all hunting is not murder, hunting is when you try to hunt an animal that has a chance to “get away” murder is when you kill something that cannot get away or is fenced in like Mr. Reid decided to do.

  138. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Hey Tod L, what organizations do suggest control the animal populations and how.

  139. Hunter
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Kelly

    Are you realy 13? Anyway, good job. Stick with your convictions!

    Your right and everyone knows it!

  140. rick dog
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Tod L, You need to just stay off this web site if your so against hunting and killing..You know some people dont just kill for the hell of it, some people need the meat to put food on the table. So you just go ahead and eat your vegtebles and vegy burgers and worry more about yourself!

  141. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Kelly,
    Mr. Reid harvested a mature bull elk at a game ranch. He did not murder it. Here’s something you might want to do. Print all the comments that you have made here and that others have made concerning this great bull and how it was harvested. Put this printout somewhere safe so you can look at it from time to time as you grow older and wiser. Hopefully you will have the same passion for hunting you seem to have now when you are a very old man. Also, hopefully you will have learned by then that we do not lift ourselves up by putting others down. And if you really want to gain insight on the sport of hunting, read a book titled , Never sniff a gift fish, by Patrick McManus. Now that’s FUNNY.

  142. MW
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    I’ve never posted a comment, but this topic hits home. I have hunted for 35 years. I currently (with my brothers) own livestock and pack into an Oregon wilderness annually unaided. In 1986 I privately packed into an Idaho wilderness (saved for a year to buy the tags), to find the outfitters assigned to the area had placed salt blocks strategically around in the unit. Don’t plan on going back to Idaho. Never will hunt behind a “high fence”. There’s a difference in hunting and harvesting. Some choose to harvest. What we all must remember is money drives everything we do. Most anything can be bought. If those more fortunate choose to harvest, then so be it. But it should never be confused with fair chase. Also, I want them and their money on my side. Not on the side of those that want to ban the sport. Can’t help but admire the animal though. Would have loved to seen it alive, up close and personal. Remember guys and gals, us hunters are the minority…we need to stick together.

  143. MW
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Wanted to add one more thing. Remember the Golden Rule…he who has the gold, makes the rules.

  144. Sean Morgan
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Hey Mark 142, If you’re the same Mark that posted on 76 I’m a little confused. How could a cynical old game warden that believes that 90% of hunters are law breakers, have the proper perspective on the sport of hunting? I hope you’re not in the position to influence too many young people.

  145. Steve Minnis
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Tod L, I enjoyed reading your comment……….it makes me feel very intelligent. Keep up the good work !!!!

  146. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    well one thing i know is that i will always love hunting no matter what anybody says if someone feels that hunting is murdur then that is thier opinion but it only means that they didnt open their eyes to the world. And Mark you confuse me as well, first you make fun of hunters then you say you know what the difference between harvest and murder is hmmm wonder if you really do know.

  147. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Tod L., go back to your tree hugging party friends and never get on another computer again for the sake of all that is sain.

  148. Ken Hyde
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Excuse me Tod L, but when an animal is placed in a fenced area, and raised to bring a high dollar it is indeed placed there for someone’s fun as well as for someone’s profit. Besides, what people do for fun is their business and people like you need to learn to mind your own business and stick to things that you like to do for fun, and who knows what that might be. Perhaps picketing for gay rights.

  149. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Sean,
    I don’t understand your problem with my post on 76. Was it the part about horn hunting for bragging rights or the money. Is it the part where I made the comment that we should take our family hunting to enjoy the outdoors. Yes, I was a game warden. during hunting season check pionts were set up on county dirt roads and hunters were checked while driving into and out of the woods. I would say that 90% of the hunters had loaded weapons in the vehicles, a violation of state law in the state that I worked. the first time offenders were given a verbal warning. Is that what you have a problem with? Stopping illegal road hunting from a pickup. I won’t even go into the other more creative ways I found unehtical idiots to illegally take game animals, so that I don’t give an idiot that is reading this any ideas. Or maybe, you have a problem with the hunters that create food plots or fill the woods with mineral blocks and illegal baiting on state and federal land. I do educate young hunters. I stress ehtics above all. I teach that it is the exprience of being outdoors and not winninig the local big buck contest down at the country store that is the reward. It burns me when some one calls killing an animal murder. You hunt an animal then you harvest it. If we allow people to call harvesting a penned animal murder we give the peta nuts ammo. I raise a butcher beef every year in a corral. Am I murdering that beef when it’s time to butcher it? How about the poor little chickens I keep in a coop? Are they murdered when it’s time to fry one up? Get real, get legal and enjoy the woods. As for comment 128, I am proud to say that I grew up with and still live amoung the socially challanged, or as we have been called, REDNECKS. If you can’t make fun of yourself and enjoy life, get off my rock your taken up room.

  150. Sean Morgan
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Tod L.

    What would you have the “organizations” that you refer to actually do to control animal populations, if harvesting is not an option? Perhaps they could transplant the appropriate numbers of critters to the same planet you came from.

  151. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Dear Tod L., through all the posts you have recived i hope you now know the difference between “murder” and “hunting”. If not then never get on this website again and act like you know what your talking about! go back to your hippy friends and go try to save some trees!

  152. Sean Morgan
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Mark, my comment regarding your post on 76 was directly related to the attitude that wild life conservation officers have toward sportsmen. In the past 38 years I’ve personally experienced a dramatic shift in Idaho Conservation Officers attitude toward the people that spend millions of dollars supporting wildlife management. When I was 12 years old, the local Game Warden in the area I hunted, was Claud Matthews. Athough Mr. Matthews was very strict in his enforcement practices, he was personable and was not annoyed by his encounters with hunters. I clearly got the message that he was doing his part to balance the management of game with the management of hunters. The CO of today seems little interested in game management which is a more complex issue than limiting the numbers of harvested animals. If it comes to a conflict between what the biologists say and what the enforcement divisions says, the enforcement arm of the organization always prevails.

    I think you’re confusing me with someone else on your “murder” commentary. However, I do believe that killing a captive animal is called “slaughter” whether the animal is typically considered wild or if it is mearly a moo cow. I don’t agree with you that “sticking together” as sportsmen, when you include guys like Kevin Reid has any meaningful benefit to the hunting sport. As far as my personal view of hunting vs killing, havesting, taking, bagging, or what ever term you prefer, I’ll just end with this note; I’ve hunted with a bow and arrow since the age of 16. The reason I chose archery equipment to hunt with wasn’t because someone else was doing it, or I saw it on the “how to” TV program, it’s because I love to watch the flight of an arrow. Since I was already a hunter thanks to my Dad, it was a no brainer that I became a hunting archer. And no……I don’t use high tech lazer guided contraptions, I hunt with what is referred to today as traditional equipment. If you are familiar with stick bows you will know that even in experienced hands they truely limit the hunters success. While I do enjoy the success of taking an animal with a well placed arrow, my fondest and most memorable stories that I tell friends are about the “ones that got away”

    Your assessment of me as well as the 90% group you referred to is off the mark, most likely a result of your former career. The point that you might consider stressing in your education of the youth, is that the commercialization of hunting by big business, whether it’s “high fenced hunting” high tech equipment, or the latest and greatest food supplement, will be the certian demise of the wonderful sport that some of us consider a priviledge.

  153. Mark
    105 mos, 3 wks ago

    Sean,
    Thanks and well put. I would like to invite you down to the great state of New Mexico next season as a guess at our ranch. You will have to pay the out of state fees, travel and meals, but I will provide you with a great bull elk hunt. I would love to be able to film a traditional bow hunt to be featured on the show.

  154. Sean Morgan
    105 mos, 2 wks ago

    Mark, thanks for the offer but I respectfully decline. I am very selective in choosing where and who I hunt with. Some of my closest friends would not be considered when I plan a hunt because we do not share the same philosophical beliefs about the sport. I know many of the folks that have posted on this site would think I’m a little short of arrows in my quiver for turning down such an opportunity, but it really doesn’t interest me. I truely embrace the concept that the hunt is greater than the kill. It is not just rhetoric to me. I once voice bugled a mature 6×6 in to 4feet in front of me. I was kneeling in a stand of scrub pines, arrow nocked, when the bull I had been working for about an hour, decided to close the 100 yard distance and enter the only concealment I could find on the hillside. When he entered the cover he was about 15 feet away. In just the blink of an eye this rut crazed bull lowered his head, took a few steps forward parting the small pine trees with his brow tines. When his head came up, we were eye to eye at 4 feet. Had I pushed my bow arm forward I would have poked him in the nose with my broadhead. Needless to say the bull swapped ends so fast I just knelt there in awe. I would not trade that experience for any dead bull. So I guess this blog has been valuable in the sense that we have both moved a little forward in our understanding of each others point of view.

  155. Mark
    105 mos, 2 wks ago

    Sean,
    No problem. As for my confusing you with my harvest vs. murder comment, I’m sorry, that comment was dirrected at kelly # 138
    I think if you reread my comments on #76, you will find that I too believe that the sport of hunting is being commercialized by big business, but that has been going on since Og traded Bog a stick with a sharpened piece of flint tied to it for a piece of wooly mamoth steak. I don’t see anything wrong with new products coming on the market to aid hunters or fisherman. It’s when people knowingly use the products to harvest an animal in an illegal mannor that needs to be addressed. The pursuit of that throphy on the wall makes some hunt unethically and others just miss out on the experince on being in the outdoors. Either by looking over thier shoulder for the game warden or by not taking thier wives or kids with them. While other times it’s best to go in the woods alone to have a great experience. You seem to understand this more than others.
    I’m truely glad there are hunters like you that insist on hunting with a stick and arrow in the wild without the aid of illegally placed mineral blocks, q beams or other devises used illlegally.
    Yes my work as a game warden did influence my view of hunters and hunting. I was able to enter hunting camps and visit with all sorts of folks and enjoyed meeting families and friends out hunting together. I was there to check for violations and most of the time was able to find something that needed to be corrected, but that goes right back to competitive hunting and the strong nature we have to gain bragging rights. Be it at the camp level or in the record books.
    As for this forum, I still feel that Mr. Reid did nothing more than buy and harvest a bull elk. Although it was harder than going to the livestock auction and buying a steer as some would like you to believe. If some one wants to hunt a high fence game ranch, go for it. Am I going to be impressed with the animal being harvested off a game ranch? Sure. Should they go in the record books? Why not? Put them in a ranch raised class after checking for steroids.
    I personally would like to see game deptpartments capture some cows and breed them to these monster ranch rasied bulls. then shut down the cow season for a year or two, but that opens up a whole new can of worms.
    take care Sean, and good luck to you in the future.

  156. Mark
    105 mos, 2 wks ago

    By the way, my comments on #132 were taken from personal cases I worked on and statements that were given by the violators. chaptor 1, fish shocking cases in south texas. Chaptor 2, was a case where a couple of drunk jerks went into a petting zoo and killed a buck with a hammer after inticing it with an apple. chaptor 3 and 4, were just statements that idiots during contacts made to me. What a great job. Kelly you might start looking into becoming a game warden.

  157. Joe Mladenik
    105 mos, 2 wks ago

    Todd # 136, Doesn’t the Bible state that animals were put here for OUR use? They were put here for us to consume.

  158. Joe Mladenik
    105 mos, 2 wks ago

    This comment section is CRAZY! HA! I live in Wyoming and I STRONGLY believe you should be able to carry your weapons loaded if you choose to. Tell the police officers to carry THEIR weapons unloaded! They will laugh in your face! They count on those extra 2 seconds it takes to load you weapon, and so do I! Coyotes don’t stick around to let you dilly dally and load up your weapon. WHAT A CROCK! As for hunting in high fence areas……………I guess it’s all up to the hunter. It also matters on the size of the fenced in area. If it is 20 acrea or 500,000. Common now guys, if the entire had a wall around it would you still call it unfair chase?

  159. Joe Mladenik
    105 mos, 2 wks ago

    I meant to type “If the entire USA had a wall around it would you still call it unfair chase?” my typing error, sorry.

  160. Travis
    105 mos, 1 wk ago

    I just got done reading all the comments about the 502+ bull. I hunt with a bow,and do so religiously, during the month of September, right here in Southeast Idaho. I have never killed a bull of this magnitude (I’ve been lucky to take some pretty good bulls) in the wild. I cherish the memories made every year on my hunts. I happen to be friends of Billy and Jared’s, the owners of Thunder Mt. Elk Ranch. I don’t personally hunt their place. I know that these guys are good people. I’ve known them quite a while. They do this as a business and I see this as just that. From all the postings, I can see mixed emotions a mile long. While it is legal to do this in Idaho, it’s their business. There are a lot of people who are mainly upset at Mr. Reid. I’ve heard it all: from his rangefinder around his neck, the many different picture locations, the bow out front, the sights, the fancy camouflage….you name it. I don’t know him. It is truly a magnificent animal. As far as record book- he can’t be entered in P&Y or Boone and Crockett. SCI- yes. I don’t prefer this type of hunting but if Mr. Reid did it legally- and could afford it- that is his choice. I wouldn’t call it fair chase. Many people know this elk wasn’t getting away- no matter how many times he would have missed it- he would have had other chances. Regardless, I don’t hunt this way, it’s a huge bull Kevin, and the owners have put in a lot of time and money into this place. They are good people living their dream- right here in the U.S.A. If Kevin is proud of this bull, and the hunt he paid for, that is his business…. We don’t need the antis looking to cook us all….What are your suggestions???

  161. Sean Morgan
    105 mos, 1 wk ago

    Travis, I gather from your last question that you’re seeking some magical answer that would satisfy everyone’s concern about the subject of “high fence hunting” There obviously is no such answer to be found. What appears to be the issue at hand, is the definition of hunting itself. If one believes that “hunting” is the eventual killing of an animal by the use of a weapon, and any method available, than high fence hunting could probably be linked to open range hunting. On the other hand, if one believes that “hunting” is about understanding animal behavior, the thrill of the chase, and being able to appreciate failure as much as success, then you will certainly know which side of the fence you’ll be hunting.

  162. Joe Mladenik
    105 mos, 1 wk ago

    Yo, WHAT is the BIG hoop de HOOP about this elk being ‘enclosed’ in a fence? EVERY SINGLE ONE of us would love to shoot an elk like that! I wouldn’t mind hunting in an ‘enclosed’ place. Because I never have. If I found it to be absurd then I would never do it again. Unless it was taken illegal or had genetically altered antlers or WHAT ever, something NOT natural, I don’t see WHAT the big deal is. Like I said be4, put a wall around the entire state of WY and people would STILL complain about it not being fair chase. common y’all.

  163. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos, 1 wk ago

    the matter at hand is not that the owners of the ranch are bad people the matter is that Kevin Reid is bragging out his bull of which he did not shoot ethicaly. And Joe i wouldnt want to shoot the bull no matter how big it is if it is inclosed.

  164. Sean Morgan
    105 mos, 1 wk ago

    Kelly,

    There have been many excellent opinions offered on this site which I believe explains quite well, the harmful effects that high fence hunting has on your sport. Unfortunately, it has caused many to justify there belief by saying that anyone that is against the practice, is just envious of Mr. Reid. After 160+ posts it is abundantly clear that this issue will never be resolved. If I accomplished anything in all my posts it was the comment from Mark on post #154. At least one person out there that supports “ranch hunting” can consider another point of view. You have many years to enjoy the sport of hunting. Don’t let those that have told you that you are too young to form an opinion, get you down. You will always find diversity in life so just enjoy the ride. Hopefully you will still have the priviledge of hunting public land when you are old and grey like many of us on this site. Good luck hunting…….I hope you gather many wonderful experiences in your adventures in the outdoors.

  165. PAUL
    105 mos ago

    like shootin an amimal in feedlot…not hunting

  166. 105 mos ago

    Just for hunters to practice, I was thinking about opening up a cattle ranch where you can stalk a big steer and poke a hole in it with an arrow from 15 feet, take some pictures in the sunset, field dress it and stuff the meat in some coolers. We’ll even mount the head! Of course, the 20K package includes plenty of beer, lots of memories, and a little tiny taste of the real thing.

  167. S
    105 mos ago

    What kind of beer?

  168. Mark
    105 mos ago

    M hunter,
    Have you ever been on a cattle ranch? some of the steers we use to have were wilder than heck, and you coundn’t get within 1/4 mile let alone 15′. some of the cows with calves would hunt you down and try to stomp the spit out of you if you got near them. your idea isn’t that bad. It could provide a lot of excitement if you had the right cattle.

  169. John Cruger
    105 mos ago

    Some people don’t have the time available for a real hunt, so they book an enclosure hunt, pay the man, shoot the bull of their dreams and hang it on the wall so all the ignorant ones can google over it. I don’t much care what these people do, BUT DON’T TRY TO GET IT IN THE RECORD BOOK. What galls me is the extent some people will go to to be in the ‘Book’. What a bunch of bull (no pun intended).

  170. Clint
    105 mos ago

    It is evident that each one of us has a different opinion of what “Fair Chase” means. Someone who chooses to hunt with a spear might argue that using a bow & arrow is unethical and someone who chooses to hunt with a bow & arrow might argue that using a muzzleloader is unethical and so on. My point is that everyone who makes a concious decision to hunt (as long as it is legal), whether it be in an enclosure with a high powered rifle or in the wilderness with a stick, should only answer to themselves.
    I would offer one suggestion to everyone who has responded to this issue. Be impeccable with your word and try not to make any assumptions. You will feel better about yourself in the long run.

  171. 105 mos ago

    Let’s see, where to begin… I was just kidding about the beer. Guns and alcohol don’t mix (unless you’re Kid Rock; or Ted Nugent off camera). But gawl dang I’d bet they’re fairchasers.

    I agree with you Clint, being a spinner fisherman who regularly hangs with fly-tiers I get called “unsportsmanlike” from time to time, of course all in good fun. I catch lots of fish, they catch lots of fish and we all go home and have trout for dinner.

    Man I’d like to have a wallhanger like that, but I’d rather shoot a jackrabbit than a gloriously large caged beast that wished it could jump 18 feet high.

  172. Mark
    105 mos ago

    Hey John C.,
    what’s wrong with a catagory in the record books that lists high fence non steroid injected game? It would be interresting to see the differences and maybe provide information to game departments that could be used to help our public game. I’m not saying that the game departments would then go out and feed the wildgame mineral enriched feed, even though it is being done today in some states during winter months. I’m just wondering if it would be able to provide wildlife managers with info. that could help them with keeping our herds strong.

  173. Ned B
    105 mos ago

    You people who think that kevin was bragging about these bulls to everybody needs to read the real story on comment #87. This pretty well sums it up!

  174. Kelly Kelso
    105 mos ago

    FAIR CHASE- the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals. read this definiton of fair chase and still see if you “REALLY” know what it is, it could do most of you a lot of good.

  175. Sean Morgan
    105 mos ago

    Ned, I think that post #6 which is in Mr. Reid’s own words overshadows what was stated in post #87. Mr. Reid himself claims that he killed both bulls under fair chase conditions. I find it interesting that for as long as I can remember, “fair chase” was defined by widely recognized organizations like B&C and Pope & Young. Now, because a few individuals have found a small market for selling large antlered animals, the concept of fair chase is being challenged. I can’t help thinking that redefining the fair chase concept, is nothing more than an attempt by some to justify killing wild animals that are held in captivity. For those that have focused on the size of the enclosure as a measuring stick for determining whether it is fair chase or not, I have posed this question: If you have an upper limit in mind relative to the size of the enclosure do you also have a lower limit established? We have heard from more than one individual that if the fenced property is large enough, it can be considered fair chase. Kevin himself says that fair chase basically can be defined by the individual on a case by case basis. My…. isn’t that convenient. I would like to know the lower limit that would be considered “unfair chase” If I had a 100′x 100′ fenced area and I stuck an arrow in a large bull, would that be too small of an area? If I’m only interested in the kill and not the hunt, why waist time walking around and going through the trouble of packing out the critter. I would rather shoot it next to an electric hoist so I could get it processed cleanly and with a minimum of effort. My obvious point is that relating the size of the enclosure to the definition of fair chase becomes arbitrary at best. It is either a captive animal or it is not. If you rob a bank, your crime will not be evaluated based upon the “number” of dollars you take. When you rob a bank…… you rob a bank. If the animal cannot ultimately get away because of the fence, then it is captive within the enclosure.

  176. Clint
    105 mos ago

    Sean,

    As you have stated, “Fair Chase” is clearly defined by both B & C and Pope & Young. That being said, these bulls will never be entered into these record books. If Kevin Reid wants to believe that these bulls were taken under “Fair Chase” rules that is his perogative. I think he realizes that he is clearly in the minority on this one and you can take comfort in knowing that most hunters strongly disagree with his beliefs.

    - Clint

  177. Sean Morgan
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Clint,

    I don’t know that I can find comfort in knowing anything about what “most” hunters think, since this site has not made that subject very clear. What’s troubling to me is far more serious than two guys making a business deal that ends up killing a majestic animal. The issue is considerably more global than that. The Kevin Reid saga is a manifestation of the more serious problem where the comercialization of the hunting sport has caused a dramatic rise in the exploitation of a precious resource. I don’t differentiate between “High Fence Hunting” …..”High Tech Hunting…..”How to Hunting” or any other “H” phrase that has crept into my sport in recent years. I have a particular aversion to pay to play hunting in general. The private ranch that limits access to only the wealthy is the same ranch that recieves free fire protection, disease monitoring and control, law enforcement, and I’m sure many other resources that tax payers make possible. I’ve always got a kick out of the farmer that doesn’t pay fuel tax for his tractor fuel but routinely drives it on the public highway blocking traffic and creating extreme hazards. It’s easy to say “to each his own” but I believe it will all soon come to a screeching halt.

  178. TOM W.
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean, are you done whining? You are making my heart ache. Move on you cry baby. go buy your own ranch and save the worlk

  179. Sean Morgan
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Tommy Boy,

    Is there a second language I could use to better communicate with you? Apparently English isn’t working very well.

  180. tod L
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean, have to agree with tom. this is a hunting forum not a day care.

  181. Mark
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean,
    I wasn’t going to post anymore comments on this blog, but just can’t stand by and let some city dude run his mouth about something he apparently knows nothing about without putting my 2 cents in. I’m a ranch owner. I sell hunts to hunters, and believe me, they are true hardcore willing to walk 10 miles a day in the mountains, get wet, cold and dirty, ethical hunters, that want to experience a hunt without seeing a bunch of drunk yahoos running around on 4 wheelers. I know that the majority of public land hunters don’t run around drunk on 4 wheelers scaring off game for other hunters, but if you are the Daniel Boone or Chief one arrow one kill you say you are, and have spent as much time in the woods as you claim, you will have to agree that it does take place and will ruins hunts for others. The hunts that I provide from the sell of our land owner tags that we get from the state to reimburse us for the feed, wildlife habitat projects and damage that the wild game do to our ranch does not provide us with a profit. We not now or will ever profit from the sell these tags. It just takes to much money to pay for the projects that we operate here on our ranch. the hunt money goes right back in to the habitat improvements along with our out of pocket money.
    From your comments on ranchers and farmers reaping money off of the US tax payer, I can see that you have never spent much time on a ranch or a farm in your life. I’m sorry to inform you that visiting uncle Bobs farm for a week to pet the chickens and shooting tin cans off the fence post with your BB gun one summer when you were 10 doesn’t count. I dare you to go tell Uncle Bob what you think of the American farmer, that old man will kick your A$$.
    You seem to think that ranchers and farmers are the sole reason for the decline of wild game on public lands. you give me the impression that you think we are nothing more than lazy, greedy, free fuel tractor driving rednecks out for a sunday drive on our John Deeres ( that by the way probably cost us more than the average house these days ). You seemed to think that we want nothing more than for all the game to be penned up on our land that you think we are buying up with tax payer’s money to corner the market on the sport of hunting. I’ll tell you this , even if it could be done, it wouldn’t be worth it. There is just not enough profit in the bottom line to justify all the back breaking work and expences.
    The fact of the matter is, wild game populations are thriving in this country as a direct result of all the hard work that ranchers and farmers are doing for the future of these populations. We are granted money if we ellect to put wildlife habitat programs in place on our lands, but maybe 10-20% is paid for by the govermant.The rest of the money is paid for by us and our labor. Before we are granted money we are made to jump through hoopes by the goverment to qualify for grants . I am going to lose $5,000.00 dollars that we could get from the US goverment to build a deck for bird watchers. We don’t have bird watchers here, and even if we did let them stand on the ground. I need the money to drill one of 6 wells that are planned for the next 8 years at a cost of $20,000.00 each for the elk and deer. Farmers set aside lands as wildlife habitat that could be plowed and planted for a profit. The goverment does not give thousands and thousands of dollars to do this. Most of the time it is done by the farmer to give back to the land. Ranchers reduce thier herds on thier lands to provide enough feed for cattle and elk herds. we also dig dirt tanks that catch water, dig water wells, buy $30,000.00 wind mills, thin pine stands to create more feed, repair fences almost daily that elk destory each night to control cattle movement so that they don’t destory the feed by over grazing ( rotational feeding). And the list goes on along with the money out of our pockets.
    It will be people who make untrue and harmful damaging comments on topics they no nothing about or young hunters beleiving these words and growing up to be in positions of manageing the wildlife populations that will be the destruction of what we now know as sport hunting . I’m glad and confident that there are a heck of a lot more people with enough brains that will insure that this will never happen.
    As for high fence ranches. the valuable information that is gained by wildlife managers from the studies that they conduct in the future will be a benifit to wild game populations for years to come.
    So stay in the city, keep your nose out of our business and we will continue to provide a healthy and growing population of game animals for your enjoyment. Keep whining and making statements that are untrue, harmfull and damaging to the folks that are in the woods and on the tractor daily busting our tails for the good of all and you might just see a change in the way farming and ranching is conducted today. Support us not condem us.

  182. Clint
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Well said Mark! You read my mind.

  183. Sean Morgan
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Mark, it sounds like you still have a lot of unresolved anger to deal with. So far all I’ve heard from the proponents of contract killing elk, is that anyone else with a different opinion is ignorant, stupid, jealous, or now as it appears, a “city slicker” I think narrow minded attitudes and self serving agendas do a lot more harm than someone offering an opinion on a site that was created for that purpose. I too was not going to post anymore, particulary after the correspondence with you. However, the new posts that I read triggered some news ideas. If I’m not mistaken, that is the intent of this blog. I guess I grossly misjudged you and your beliefs. I’m certainly not trying to save the world as Tom W. so “eloquently” stated. I apparently made a false assumption that posting on this site would engage others to discuss a subject intelligently without resorting to name calling and irresponsible statements. This is just a discussion forum, my gosh……….do you really believe it will have an impact on the world? It sounds like your idea of stifling another point of view would have more adverse affect on the big picture.

  184. Mark
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean,
    You have sat on a high horse condeming ranches and private hunts since your first post , even though it is apparent that you know nothing about wildlife management, ranching or farming, but what you might have seen on Wild kingdom or Green acres. Anytime some one has disagreed with you, you have either turned thier words around or when you couldn’t, you attacked thier grammer and spelling.
    You bet your A$$ I have unresolved anger, but I’m not the only one. There are thousands of people like myself who have dedicated our lives to wildlife management in an attempt to preserve this nations wildlife and the hunting sport for future generations. We work our tails off putting ourselves through school, working for little or no pay (volunteer work to gain experience) and we have had friends in wildlife law enforcement that have given thier lives for tour beliefs. I think I have the right to be angery with some of your attitudes and comments about ranching, wildlife law enforcment and your lack of understanding in wildlife management and research in general. Going in to the woods a couple times a year playing Davey Crocket will not allow you to understand the big picture .
    You speak of us as being narrowed minded. have you ever thought about the benifits that high fence ranches bring to wildlife game management? No your too busy putting down the person that harvested a great bull and how it makes you look as a hunter to think about the advantages there are in conducting up close research on capitive wild game spiecies. research that could and does benifit public owned wild game. Instead you concnetrate on the kill. there is a reason those bulls were of that size. What are they? Is it steroids or is it the breeding programs. why don’t we have animals like these in the wild? research my friend is also being conducted on these ranches. It is in thier best interrest and some of this information can help our public game. If we choose to shut down these operations we could be cutting our own throats. this valuable information could help to insure that our herds are healthy for future generations.
    I hoped that you would have taken me up on my offer to hunt our ranch. If you had, you would have been in for an eye openner, and gone away with sore feet and a little bit more understanding of ranching. If you were to ease up a little on your higher than mighty attitude and quit making strong uneducated statements on topics you know nothing about, maybe some of your friends would go hunting with you.
    As for misjudging my beliefs, I will spell them out for you as simple as I can
    1. I am in favor of hunting both private and public lands.
    2. I don’t care for unethical hunters in the woods giving the sport of hunting a bad name, and will remove any paying hunter on our ranch that is found to be unethical
    3. I personally could care less for the record books except in gaining information for wildlife research
    4. I think that being in the outdoors is the experience and not the kill or hunting for records.
    5. I believe that men should take thier families hunting with them.
    6. I believe that ranchers have a positive impact on our public wildlife.
    7. I believe that our young should be taught to enjoy the experience and not guage thier success in the sport by inches and mass.
    8. I believe that game taken off high fence ranches should go into record books in a game ranch class for future research.
    9. I believe that I will never get rich but live richly by ranching
    10. I also believe in what I posted on #127 and will stop here.

    I’m dun now, go a head in attacked my spelins and grammers

  185. Sean Morgan
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Tod L.,

    Something just struck me that I thought was hilarious……your post on #136 and again on #181 has got me in stiches. Keep up the good work, you’re helping me prove my point.

  186. Sean Morgan
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Mark,

    Your list was nice but what about your other beliefs?

    1. 90% of hunters break the law.

    2. If someone disagrees with you they are uneducated.

    3. Your definition of fair chase differs from B&C and P&Y.

    4. Individuals that point out the hypocracy in the idea that farmers and ranchers are all just getting by, are ignorant city slickers.

    5. You’re on a crusade to improve the wildlife on public land by limiting access to your private land to only the wealthy……hmm….I have to admit, the logic of that one escapes me.

    6. You continue to stay in a business that looses money for the benefit of mankind……………..THAT one is very noble.

    7. You want to glorify people that kill captive animals by creating a record book that documents the event.

    8. You assume that if someone isn’t a crotchety old retired game warden they know nothing about wildlife management.

    9. The hunting population outside your fence is largerly comprised of drunks running around on 4-wheelers.

    10. You actually believe, and this is the scary one….that you have a positive influence on the youth of today.

    As far as my reference to spelling and grammar, I mentioned it because the guy stated that I was uneducated because I had a different viewpoint. He happened to spell the word incorrectly which I found a little ironic. As a side note, I was bantering back and forth with him because he killed an elk illegally and boasted about it on a worldwide forum. I would have guessed that you would have jumped on the oportunity to tout your 90% rhetoric with him rather than focus on my comment.

  187. Dan
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean, Hey man why dont you just give it up? You know marks right. You just want somthing to b$#@% about. I know the owners of the thunder mountian elk ranch, and i’ve helped on the ranch and there is alot of time and money that goes into a place like this, but you sit here and put down everyone and everything, thinking you know everything about elk ranches. Kevin Ried didnt want these pictures all over the internet because of people like you who sit there and put him down because he’s got the money to do it. We all can sence a little jelousy, and thats normal, i wish i could shoot an elk like that. It wouldnt matter if it was domestic or wild, it still looks the same on the wall. Just a little bigger!!!

  188. S. Hunter
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Dan,

    Whew!! thanks for clearing up that tough issue!! That’s such an original thought, I’m surprised you didn’t offer it before. You could have saved us all a lot of trouble. Good job!!!!

  189. Mark
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean,
    I hope this will be the last comment I have to make to you concerning my beliefs. I wouldn’t even bother, but I feel that a lot of what you believe and have passion for or also my passions. I truely admire your interrest in bow hunting. When I was putting myself through school I worked at bear arcery in G,ville, fla. It takes skill, passion and commitment to stay with the old recurves.
    1. yes I believe there are so many laws and rules in this country that it is easy to break a law, rule or regulation knowningly or unknowningly.
    3. I don’t think that I have mentioned what I define as fair chase on htis blog, but I would have to agree with Kelly’s post #175, and I don’t think that High fence hunting falls under that most of the time.
    5. Our ranch is not a High Fence operation, and 99%of the farms and ranches in this country aren’t either. the game that benifits from our private ranch travel on to national forest ( public land) every morning to bed. We provide a area for feed and breeding and the game are free to travel off our land on to public as in the case in most farms and ranches.
    6. My family has been blessed to own a retail shop that provides our income. Tthat income allows us to put money in to our passions ( wildlife habitat improvemnets on our ranch ) we use hunting as a tool to improve the herd.
    7. I don’t care about record books and have stated that a few times, but records do provide infomation that researchers can use.
    8. Wrong, but judging from your post , I know more than you do about wildlife management.

  190. Sean Morgan
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Ok………….you guys are right. I have a secret desire to shoot an elk through a fence…..uh, I mean inside a fence. The reason I turned down Mark’s offer to kill one of his elk was because he stated earlier that his bulls were only in the 400 class. Since Kevin got a 400 class bull in 04 and a 500 class one in 05, I figured that the Thunder Mountain boys were mixing up their potion for a 600 class bull for 06. I was hoping that I could pal around with Kevin and he could not only teach me how to shoot a bow but perhaps we could flip a coin to see who got to poke that big bruiser. But I guess I have to admit that…….Dtag, Tom W, Tod L, Clint, Mark, Dan, Lassie, and Mr. Ed, you’re far to intelligent for me to converse with so I’ll say good-by. I’m going back to the city and I hope that on that one day of the year that I go out to hunt, I’ll run into one of you fine “hunters”

  191. Mark
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean,
    I forgot to address #9
    Yes I do believe that there is a lot of drunk and drugged up hunters in OUR area. I’m sorry to say that the county that I live in has the highest DUI arrest rates in the whole US. We have allowed local hunters in the past to hunt the ranch, but it just caused too much trouble. If you read my other posts you will see that we have in the past and will in the future try our best to make our ranch available to others that might not be able to afford a paid hunt, but as for now we have found that by selling quality hunts on our lands, it not only provides a benifit to us but to public land hunters hunting on surrounding national forrest lands.

  192. Mark
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean,
    thanks for the Crotchtey old game warden remarks. It does my heart good. I think I’lll have ma put it on my tomb stone. Can you come up with anymore goodins I can use? have a good one brother.

  193. Mark
    104 mos, 4 wks ago

    Sean,
    I wish that you were in one of my classes when you were younger. You might have learned that it is not about inches and mass points and records. It’s about enjoying the outdoors with good friends and family.

  194. Clint
    104 mos, 3 wks ago

    Sean,
    I sincerely hope that “Sean Morgan” isn’t your real name for your sake. You have a lot of growing up to do…

  195. Kelly Kelso
    104 mos, 3 wks ago

    I have some things to say to a lot of you. Firstly Tod L. how can you say in post 136 that you think all hunting is killing, then why did you go to KINGSOUTDOORWORLD.COM which is clearly a hunting site and agree and think you know what your talking about when you clearly represented that you dont like hunting!!! so what are you a hunter, civilian, or a tree hugging hippie! I would really like to know. Mark you are just spinning your wheels you keep saying the same thing: Farmers work hard to keep there ranch good and they arent bad people. Well i have news for you buddy im not saying farmers are bad people its you who say all hunters are drunks on 4 wheelers. I would certainly like to not be a game warden if they all end up like you so im sorry but i dont want to be in your field of buisness. As for the rest of you i didnt read any part where Sean was whining you just cant think of anything because you know hes right. As one of my teachers has said if you are having a debate and you say something that the other person doesnt like so they tell you to “stop whining” or shut up or some other comment, you have already won the argument.

  196. Casey Encinias
    104 mos, 3 wks ago

    Thats an awsome bull the only thing i dont like about it is that its not mine. Seems like everyone has a little jeleousy towards you but hell anybody can have nice animals if they want it just takes alot of time and money and hussle.I have a couple of 370class bulls but im in the mountains every weekend and thats my style of getting my animals

  197. Mark
    104 mos, 3 wks ago

    Casey,
    What state do you hunt?

  198. Dan
    104 mos, 3 wks ago

    I have to agree that it is an awesome bull and he must have paid a healthy price, but it is still on a high fenced ranch. Whether the ranch is 1 or 1000 acres, it is still not a “fair chase” bull…

  199. CaliLuvver82
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    I don’t see anything wrong with high fenced hunting. Yeah it’s not as difficult, but its still hunting! My buddies and I all make around $600,000 a year and don’t have the time to track these elk on public land. We have this ranch in Montana with 13 400+ class bulls. There is a seperate parcel for raising calves. All fecnes are about 10 feet to keep the animals in and the prey out. This ensures quality elk hunting, without having to worry about predators. This farm is well over 500 acres of wooded/open flatlands. This style of hunting is getting more and more popular for hunters with little time on thier hands willing to shell out the cash. HAPPY HUNTING!

  200. Hawk
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    CaliLuvver82……that’s not hunting, that’s SHOPPING! I do the same thing at the local supermarket when I don’t have “time” to kill and butcher my own cow!
    I find it rather disheartening that you would even consider this hunting at all. You entire post pretty much outlines why REAL hunters have issues with high-fenced hunts.
    If you’ve got the money, and from your rather poorly disguised attempt to brag about your yearly income, you do then go ahead and blow it on a “canned” trip. One heck of an expensive way to fill the freezer though! Why don’t ya just take a small portion of that and buy a side of beef at the local butcher? Then, you can order a set of antlers from one of the many dealers across the nation to hang on your wall and brag to your friends about how you didn’t have time to do it the right way so you bought them instead. Not much difference as far as I am concerned.

  201. CaliLuvver82
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    Hawk, ever see brokeback mountain? You remind me of the lead character. I’m personally not a big fan of elk meat, and give most of it away. I’m actually a vegetarian and hunt only for the thrill of the kill, and the rack. Maybe it’s not as hard core as the way you hunt and you probobly can’t afford it, but it is becoming more popular and one day you can expect that ALL hunting will be this way. High fenced hunting is the future of the sport.

  202. Hawk
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    CaliLuvver82, haven’t seen it. It’s a movie I’d guess but I’ve been away from the states for the last 15 months and haven’t kept up on that sort of stuff. Wasn’ t lookin’ to get into a **ssin’ match with anyone here either…just speaking my mind in regards to what you consider hunting. You must expect, when you post on a subject as touchy as this, that you’ll get responses…some not necessarily agreeing with your point of view (Did you even read the rest of this blog!?).
    1) No, I can’t afford to pay for a canned hunt, and wouldn’t even if my bottom line would afford me that opportunity. Being in the military does not exactly rake the dough in, if you know what I mean.
    2) You hunt ONLY for the thrill of the kill?! Most hunters I know will tell you that getting into the great outdoors, away from offices, jobs, etc is why they hunt, and to harvest a great animal is just the icing on the cake. If you hunt JUST to kill and put some bone on the wall then you’re in it for the wrong reasons (MY opinion. You can keep your’s).
    One last note. I am currently serving my country in the Middle East (18 more days and I am headin’ back home to the wife and kids, God willing!). If you want to experience the “thrill of the kill”, raise your right hand, take the oath, and join me and my fellow Soldiers, Sailors, Airman, and Marines on the front lines. I’ll tell you with all conviction, there is NO “thrill” to the kill!

  203. Steve Minnis
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    Hawk,

    Good response! …….. and thanks for helping preserve our ablity to not only go hunting, but to be able to live in a country that allows us to express our opinion. Good luck when you get home.

  204. Coyote_63
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    I have to agree wtih CaliLuvver82. I have a very busy schedule, and am realtively successful also. Through a friend, I was introduced to a few high fence hunting camps in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. I find it exciting to kill the game, though I don’t often have a lot of time to waste staliking through the brush. And I surely don’t advocate spraying myself with animal urine, because let’s face it, even after you wash, you still have a faint aroma of critter pee on you. The places I go allow me to show up and guarantee a kill on a trophy bull or buck. Most times, I will come in on a Friday night, and be back on the way home by Saturday afternoon with a bull and or buck to my credit. I don’t take the meat, I leave it with the lodtge. They can use it, sell it, give it away or turn it into dog food for all I care. I don’t have the time or inclination to spend a week running around in the woods. I would much rather be able to drive up, or ride up on an ATV, make my kill, and be on my way to the next one. For most hunters, it’s the kill that is most exhilirating, not the chase. THe chase jsut makes you tired and frustrated, whereas the kill gets the heart pumping. So why not got to a ranch, camp, or lodge in which the animals are cared for and you can get a quick kill? It seems more humane that I shoot a bull, and that if my shot is not true, I can have a guide shoot him and put him out his misery than chasing him through the woods hoping he will bleed out. CaliLuvver82 -I’m with you, a quick hunt is better and more efficient than a long, drawn out hunting trip.

  205. Kelly Kelso
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    Coyote, i dont know about you but the reason my heart pumps is not just seeing the animal and shooting it but to “work hard” and have earned that trophy even if its a doe. I regret last hunting season because i held out for a buck, i did see a buck but you know what i wasnt prepared and that cost me. My heart was pumping so fast it felt like it was going to burst. I didnt shoot the animal but i worked hard to get to at least “see” it that is what makes me happy. Sure i was bummed out that i didnt shoot it but now i look back and was cool just to see the buck walk up to the scent i used. That very same day i was only 5ft from a doe and it was the coolest thing in the world. So even if high fenced “killing” becomes more popular i will always work hard and “earn” the trophy instead of paying money just to shoot at something. If you dont have time to hunt DONT be a hunter.

  206. Mark
    104 mos, 2 wks ago

    Hey Cali and coyote,
    quit the crap. you guys ain’t rich and have never been on a high fence ranch. Just trying to stir the pot up a little. this pot don’t need no stirring or haven’t you read the post. anyone with a lick of sence can see that you are trying to pretend to be high fence hunters to make high fence operations look bad. drink another beer and find another lie to post. hopefully somewhere else.

  207. Fish
    104 mos, 1 wk ago

    I also won’t hunt the high fences. Love to go look at the animals up close and enjoy. The last ten years, I let a lot of nice bucks go, holding out for a trophy.(10pt or better to me). Killed 5, came home to eat tag soup 5. Still looking for the monster that I hope to kill sometime SOON. It is not the kill that gives me (lets be honest,) yea, the kill is exciting, but it is the getting out in the hills with the family the is the big TRILL. Away from the farm-worry-hassels, an such. Son went on his first hunt at the age of 6 weeks, daughter at the age of 3 1/2 mts. Went every year till we lost our son at 25, and our daughter married military and was sent to Germany a couple years ago at the age of 29, They to love the going and enjoying the outing.

  208. Hunter
    104 mos ago

    Coyote may not be for real, but his attitude & opinions do represent the likes of many who hunt behind high fences. Why else would you do it except for the thrill of the kill and/or to stroke a big ego.

  209. Kelly Kelso
    104 mos ago

    you know hunting isnt about killing something its about seeing the country and enjoying the outdoors if you just go around kill something fast and dont really care except for the rack then you should be ashamed to call yourself hunters!

  210. Mike Bowman
    103 mos, 2 wks ago

    Two great bulls,but not the same as getting up at dark and spending countless hours glassing and trying to find that once in a lifetime monster.It may never happen and if it don’t so what .I just enjoy the fact that I love spending time with family and friends in the great outdoors.After all thats what hunting is all about.

  211. Rifle
    103 mos, 1 wk ago

    Hey all, found this blog and after a long read, have a few comments. I’m from Alberta, where for right now at least, it is illegal to charge money to access land for the purpose of hunting, whether it be a farmer or a game rancher (yes, unfortunately we have game ranches but they haven’t yet succeeded in tricking our government into allowing hunts on them). Most of us up here are fighting hard to keep it that way, so we don’t end up like most of the States. I take affront at those who would call regular hunters like myself “jealous” for not being able to afford fenced hunts. That’s not hunting, and therefore I’m not jealous. What I’m concerned about is the growing trend where you must be wealthy in order to hunt at all! Friends of mine down in the states laugh when I ask about hunting on private land for free down there! The thrill of hunting is in the chase, NOT the kill. The cameraderie with friends and family, and enjoying nature are what it’s all about. To Kevin, hunting in a fenced area is not and will never be “fair chase”, due to the fact that even if it’s a 10, 000 acre ranch, the feedplots and watering holes are set up in a way that guarantees a kill. You are buying that elk/deer, paying lots of money to guarantee you will get it. Paying a farmer to hunt on his land is unfair to those who cannot afford it. Paying a game rancher to shoot fenced-in animals isn’t unfair (because no real hunter would want to do this), but it extremely unethical. Although our gun laws are retarded and restrictive up here, I’m still thankful that I live in a place where everyone is able to enjoy the sport equally and experience it as it should be, with no fences, at least for now.

  212. tad
    103 mos ago

    I think we all need to just stick together whether you hunt high fences or not….Were all basically doing the same thing, whether its domestic elk or wild elk!!! Yes its harder and more difficult to hunt wild game, but if a guy wants to hunt a high fenced elk so be it!!!! Leave it at that!!! I myself have never hunted a domestic elk and probably never will, but i dont see anything wrong with it. Thats just my opinion THANKS!

  213. Kevin
    103 mos ago

    Bragging about this elk is ridiculous, to the guy who said it’s no different than a cattle rancher getting paid to let someone shoot a cow, you don’t see the cowboy on a website holding a head way out in front of him do ya. Was this elk tested by the olympic anti-doping agency, if so what was the steroid/blood ratio. I think i’m gonna go down to the petting zoo and shoot me a trophy alpaca, hopefully I remember my boltcutters this time!!

  214. cd
    102 mos, 4 wks ago

    This blog is funny! Have we forgotton about the question here? Does this animal deserve to be scored in the Pope and Young Record book? Or should all farm animals have their own record book? Does SCI recognize sheep, cows and horses as trophy animals?Hummm….

  215. jeff
    102 mos, 4 wks ago

    CD, No your funny!!….Man, thats original!! We’ve only heard that one a thousand times!!! We all know this elk cant be in the record books so give it up and quit trying to be funny….I thought that comment was funny about 200 comments ago.

  216. critter
    101 mos, 2 wks ago

    farm raised or not those are two of the largest elk ever…….ethical or not should not even be an issue. congratulations to the hunter. if i had the time and money i would do it in a heartbeat and have fun. in response to the guy in article #65….. before you hammer on folks about taking others hunting you should know we are out there. during the 2005 hunt in unit nine, myself and another guide here in arizona guided a couple of challenged hunters, a fifteen year old double amputee and his seventy-seven year old grandfather who is raisng/caring for him. both harvested bulls in the 360-370 class. it was a lot of extra work and time in the field scouting. i would sooner hunt with these two again because of their positive attitudes and spirit than the many others with crappy attitudes. i provided these two with the chance and opportunity to harvest a trophy class animal and it is not a whole lot different than what you provided your hunters. THESE FOLKS PAY FOR A SERVICE TO TAKE A TROPHY ANIMAL WHICH THEY CANNOT PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES. folks pay me money to provide them with a service no different than they pay you to provide them with one.

  217. 101 mos, 1 wk ago

    Arizona has it definitely right over New Mexico many other states they don’t allot tags to their guides. I will talk later about some of the ethics of guides later. But congratulations on your patience and success in providing these hunters with this opportunity. I’m not a guide and don’t ever plan on being one I just do it for free and know the feeling of seeing some else experienced what your clients experienced. You may be classified in the minority of guides on my good side but I don’t know you well enough though. It partly would depend how you treat no guided hunters hunting the same area along with other factors. But I will talk about that later.

    I wasn’t going to comment on the main subject here I guess I’ll through a couple cents worth in and try to be fair unlike some of the farm or ranch raised elk not high fenced elk as they try to change the perception with this buzz word. I would just find it more appropriate if they used the words killed the elk than hunting it. I’m sure he worked hard getting close enough for a shot and it may have taken the 3 weeks or so to do so with a bow in this artificial environment. Obvious it doesn’t hand feed like my elk. It would make it appear to be a little more like hunting and ethical than a metro sexual who shoots one with a high powered rifle in a 3 – 40 acre open field enclosure and goes back home and tells everyone about the tough elk hunt of snow sleet and miserable conditions he survived to kill this elusive animal. I raise elk but they are at this time for my own enjoyment. Someday there numbers will need to be thinned whether by me or someone that wants the meat. But I would never use the terminology or concept with the use of the HERITAGE of HUNTING. It is not just semantics it is the concept behind the words. Hey nice bulls and I am glad to find out the origin and I doubt there were any steroids used just good nutrition and excellent genetics involved most likely. So quit making things worse than they really are here. I haven’t read all the blogs here and maybe someone has already said what I have said. I don’t know much about Thunder Mountain Elk Ranch and won’t judge them here but they seem pretty respectful business and have some great genetics in there elk. They have to make a profit to support there operation and I don’t have problem with that also. I would just ask them to ask that they embed on there photos or any taken by any clients with the script killed on elk farm or ranch so that there is no confusion between them and those taken in fair chase. It is there prerogative to still call it a hunt, but I think with regard and respect to the HERITAGE of HUNTING just use the words killed on your ranch or taken and you do yourself more of a service. I realize the issue is not all black and white here but somewhere we have to draw the extinction for this Heritage we all enjoy.

  218. 101 mos, 1 wk ago

    I just read some of the blogs on here, interesting. Thanks Hawk for your service and your comments. CaliLuvver82 I didn’t even read your blog when I talked about metro sexuals but I won’t put you in that stereotype but you keep talking on here you’ll fit in perfect. You want to rationalize why you do it fine. Just don’t try to shove it down Hawks throat he smarting than your rationalizing. As far as broke back mountain that was created by some of characters that are cali metrosexauls and homosexuals not people like decent people like Hawk. You owe him an apology for someone that is serving your country so you can sit home and make your 600,000 a year. Big deal! If you have that kind of money you can afford to take sometime off and do a real hunt. Otherwise don’t call it as such. This is so called canned hunts is the demise of hunting not the future grab a clue mister. If you really would like to come on a real hunt just come tag along with me for a couple of weeks I think you would have a blast and change your opinion. It might be one of the toughest physical things you have done but that is part of hunting your missing. I probalby hit a few personnal feelings here but I tried to honest with CaliLuvver82. I was raised on elk meat and it provided for me in college when things were a little leaner. You might try you wild game some you might live longer and healthier than be a vegan.

  219. Andrew
    101 mos, 1 wk ago

    Personally I have no problem with people working all their life to afford a bull/bulls like that. But i want to know why Safari Club International supports scoring shot caged animals in america that arn’t even remotely endangered. It just goes to show the integraty of some of thes clubs trying to make money of of endorsments and such. As well as thes tofu farting excusses of hunters. this guy not only killed one but two huge bulls, theres something wrong here. when does money outweigh the thrill and integrity of a fair chase hunt.

  220. BRANDON
    101 mos ago

    I have a problem with everything that is going on now days.As far as I’m conserned every one should be a little more like tred barta. Love him or hate him at least he isnt cheeting. If you ask me, if you pay for it its cheating. I would rather go without and not get anything then telling my grand kids that I payed someone to kill it.

  221. Taylor
    101 mos ago

    Hey, I work for a taxidermist and I have seen a huge amount of big bulls. I would give that bull maybe a 402 not a 502. And so would everyone else I work with. Are you sure you didn’t mess up on the score sheet, or hit the wrong key while typing however it is very easy to tell that the photos are doctored. ITS FULL OF BULL. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL A BULL CAN SCORE THAT BIG. It is a nice bull though

  222. 101 mos ago

    Mike,
    These are very big bull and i wish you the best of luck in the future and that even though it was high fenced I think it was still fair chase and any guy driving around in his truck and sees a elk standing on the would get out and shoot it and call it fair chase. It is no diffrent then shooting it in a fence and probely eayser that calling the elk in. Now days I wonder if there is a thing called fair chase because most guys just rode hunt and shoot there elk and the only way you can get away from elk that are used to cars and truck is to pack into the back country and most guys dont do that. Just keep up the good luck and get another one because every one is just mad that they did not get it.

  223. Bill
    101 mos ago

    Okay, I must retort. I am and always will be a fair chase hunter. I choose to raise my children as such. “BUT” is this really a whole lot different than the guy who can afford to hunt Africa, Alaska, Montana, British Columbia, or any others? Is a trophy from another state or continent still a trophy? If it is not in your own back yard is it off limits? Although I personally would not participate in a caged hunt I refuse to bash a guy who has made a life for himself good enough to afford such things that rest of us cannot.

  224. scooter
    101 mos ago

    thats an awesome bull. ive actually have seen it. one of my friends is doing the taxidermy work. its amazing! the antlers are over 80lbs easy.

  225. bucky deer
    100 mos, 4 wks ago

    WOW! what a bull. If you notice the background is different in some of the pictures, That’s wierd to me that bull seems like it weight’s alot.

  226. Eastern Guy
    100 mos, 3 wks ago

    Being from the backwoods of PA and never hunting out west, i really have no clue what it is like. but from spending the past hour reading down through this blog….sounds like western hunters have some issues about ranches, public land, and “trophies”. around here, we have no ranches, no fenced in animals, and certainly no WORLD CLASS trophies (we do have some trophy whitetail though) of any species. so….a trophy is defined not by what it was scored….but by the amount of time and energy you put into the hunt to harvest the animal. and “hunting” on fenced land, no matter how many acres it is, is not hunting.

  227. 100 mos, 3 wks ago

    Yes I have to agree…. and a trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. Somebody said something about beauty on these words of wisdom…….
    Scooter what are you doing blogging on this website? Shouldn’t you be out looking for horns still?

  228. 100 mos, 3 wks ago

    I heard a story about a 500 buck that was taken above the tree line and that the hunters tried to get it out of the trees and had such a time with it that they butchered it there and were attacked an killed by a gizzly. The bear didn’t eat the camera… just the meat of the elk and the hunters.
    Nice pictures though….

  229. Yellowfish
    100 mos, 2 wks ago

    Game farms were dis-allowed in Montana for a variety of reasons, one of which was because these are pay and kill operations, and money and common sense don’t always go together…. Like transporting CWD vectors across state lines. Wise up Idaho, and get these canned hunters out of your state before they bring more than antler collectors in…

  230. 98 mos, 3 wks ago

    REMEMBER WHEN YOU BAKED YOUR OWN CAKE, DID YOUR OWN REPAIRS OR SEWED YOUR CLOTHES? WELL NOW THE LOCAL DEPARTMENT STORE DOES THAT FOR YOU, AND JUST LIKE THAT HUNTING IS GETTING TO BE A WHOLE LOT EASIER DUE TO RANCHES. DOES THIS MAKE IT RIGHT OR WRONG? WELL THATS HARD TO SAY. PLENTY OF HUNTERS SPEND THE YEAR BETWEEN HUNTS SCOUTING,WALKING THE WOODS AND PUTTING IN THE TIME TO FAIR CHASE ELK BUT OTHERS ARE DEPENDING ON RANCHES TO PUT THE TROPHY ON THE WALL. TO EACH HIS OWN I GUESS. IF ITS SUCH A BIG PROBLEM FOR THE RECORD BOOKS THEN PUT A SEPARATE CATAGORY IN. THE FUTURE IS GOING TO DEMAND IT ANYWAYS BEFORE IT’S ALL OVER WITH

  231. Scott
    98 mos, 3 wks ago

    The bull was shot near Soda Springs, Idaho. The bull resided in a fenced-in area, where local sportsman run and operate a hunting ranch. Basically, you pay big bucks and get big results. I’m not sure how the big animals react to calls, after being herded and fed for so long in a fenced enclosure.

  232. Caleb Colyer
    98 mos, 3 wks ago

    I agree that the bull in the pictures above does not score over 500. I see bulls every day that score anywhere from 200 to close to 500 SCI. I am part of an elk breeding farm, and I see antlers from all over North America. Whoever scored that bull must have accidentally added BOTH beam lengths twice. That bull looks to me to be in the mid 400′s. I guarantee that the bull that is said to score 447 above actually scores higher than this so-called 500 class bull. I have actually SEEN 500 class bulls, and the one pictured above is not even close.

  233. Caleb Colyer
    98 mos, 3 wks ago

    I also have a comment about private hunting facilities. Animals that are raised in a farm environment, and that are eventually hunted on a hunting preserve, are “usually” not desensitized to human presence. Animals that can be hand-fed in the summer time are totally different when the rut kicks in. You cannont change the fact that elk are still wild animals, UNLIKE a domesticated cattle. From my experience with farm-raised elk, when released into a large enclosure or natural environment, they honestly “turn wild again.” Even on a farm, the animals do not respond well to someone wandering around on foot. A tractor is different: they become acustommed to the sound of the vehicle, and usually associate it with food. Elk on a farm are like goldfish in a tank: they can’t run away in a small enclosure, but if you release them into a multi-hundred acre area, you are not going to approach the animals easily, or even be able to find them. I agree that “canned hunts” are not totally like the real, wild thing. But, some places to do offer a private hunt where there is no guarantee on success, and it does require some degree of work to find, call in, and harvest an animal. The hunts offered at michiganelkhunting.com do just this.

    It is a unique experience for someone to be able to hunt an elk in the state of Michigan. Each year, around 45,000 apply for an elk hunting licence in Michigan, and the DNR give out an average of 200. For someone who wants to stay in Michigan, and have a chance to harvest an elk without paying out their @$$ to travel out West and pay an outfitter to take them hunting, this is a very attractive alternative that takes much less time, and generally costs less, especially considering that the success rate is probably going to be much higher on a private hunt. These are just my own, personal thoughts.

  234. Caleb Colyer
    98 mos, 3 wks ago

    I am still outraged that this bull above is claimed to score over 500 inches SCI. Therefore, I am going to score him out right now.

    Right Side-

    G1- 22
    G2- 20
    G3- 18
    G4- 26
    G5- 20
    NTP1- 12
    NTP2- 3
    NTP3- 4
    C1- 7
    C2- 7
    C3- 9
    C4- 8
    Beam length- 55

    RIGHT TOTAL – 211

    Left Side

    G1- 21
    G2- 20
    G3- 15
    G4- 22
    G5- 18
    G6- 10
    NTP1- 2
    C1- 7
    C2- 7
    C3- 8
    C4- 7
    Beam length- 55

    LEFT TOTAL- 192

    Spread- 53

    SCI SCORE- 456

    These measurements are exaggerated estimates. The antlers pictured above score no more than 456 inches. If I have made a mistake in my calculations, please, anyone, correct me right away.

  235. james
    98 mos, 2 wks ago

    Caleb
    I dont understand how you can score an elk just from a picture, man thats pretty amazing. I was there when sci scored this elk and yes it scored 502 2/8. THis bull was 60 inches wide, the mass on this bull was unbelieveable, you have the measurments all wrong buddy. This bull looks alot bigger in real life, you cant score an elk by a picture!!!

  236. Greg Sholtz
    98 mos, 2 wks ago

    Juliana, hunting maintains a healthy number of an animal and keeps them from becoming overpopulated, which could hurt the food chain. Hunting is healthy for the environment, if you dont believe me talk to a conservation project.

  237. Caleb
    98 mos, 2 wks ago

    James,

    I think it’s awesome that you were there for the scoring, but I still find it hard to believe that this bull breaks 500. Even if the spread is 60 inches, that only adds 7 inches to my estimate. And maybe the beam is closer to 60 inches, but it still doesn’t add up. I would like to see the score sheet for this bull or know some of the tine lengths.

    I have scored dozens of bulls myself, and I am the statistician for certain elk antler competitions. I just recently saw the new world record rack that scored 598 inches. The only way that I can believe this bull scores 500 is if those brow tines are about 25 inches. Thanks for the correction, James.

  238. john
    98 mos, 1 wk ago

    I would be ashamed of myself for shooting such a trophy inside a high fenced hunting preserve. This hunt must have been extremely diffacult im sure it required all of your superior hunting abilites to take such an animal. I hope your proud of yourself.

  239. Dave
    98 mos ago

    Wow, just read this blog for the first time while searching for something else.

    It amazes me some of the comments in this blog, most of them appear out of jealously. I know Kevin, he is a great guy, great hunter. He isn’t the type of guy that hunts animals that are staked to a tree.

    People can believe whatever they want about the ranch. But even if the bull was staked to a tree (which isn’t even close to this hunt), what is the difference from you people hunting bears and deer over bait? What is the difference of all you road hunters out there? How about all you people that go to camp just to drink or whatever you do?

    I bet many of the people that commented in this blog are those I listed above, not really hunters, not in shape, don’t go out of the way to help conservation and donate to the cause. Kevin is that type of person, he is willing to give and doesn’t require anything in return. If you met him on the street you would think he is the greatest person that you have met in a long time.

    So who are you to judge. Have you ever paid for anything? You pay for a nice whole chicken at the supermarket, one that is raised in a little tiny pen, feed chicken food and then has his head chopped off? Who cares, so do I.

    We live in America, the fact that the ranch could get a bull to grow to a 500+ inch bull, congrats to them. So Kevin paid to hunt the bull, congrats to him, I wish I had the money to do so.

    So why is everyone pointing fingers at him? Why? Is it jealously, is it because you don’t have the money, is it because you never hunted elk, is it because you don’t hunt, is it because you are maybe a rifle hunter, is it maybe that you…..well, see where I’m going. I don’t care if you hunt or don’t hunt, I don’t care if you play golf, I hate the game, but glad that there are people that love the game. I hate watching football on TV, but for those of you that love that Sunday game, good on ya…if it gives you satisfaction, the good for you. For those of you that drive a Mercedes, Corvette, Viper, Hummer, etc….I’m glad for you, I wish I could afford one as I would be driving one too.

    But to come on here to say Kevin is wrong, or like Caleb to say he can score it by looking at the photo (that was a good one), or to talk about fair chase….well….remember one thing….

    we are all humans, we live individual lives, we believe in different things, we are sometimes right and sometimes wrong…some of us are fat, some are skinny, some will live longer than others….as long as I am living, I am going to try to experience every legal thing that makes me happy…..as I live to live, experience life, spend my money on what I can afford, which makes me happy….

    I would be happy as crap if I could have taken those two bulls…Congrats Kevin….I know you are a very Ethical hnter as I have know you for quite awhile….and I know you are also a great hunter…carry on….

  240. jeremy
    98 mos ago

    Dave, I would have to say i agree with you 100%!!!!Finally somebody who knows what their talking about. My in-laws own the thunder mountian elk ranch and they’ve worked their asses off for years to be able to get this ranch and people sit here and put them down and put kevin down. I just dont get it!! I agree there are alot of jealous people out there. Nice bulls kevin! We’ll see ya this fall.

  241. Will
    98 mos ago

    Kelly from comment #112 all I gotta say is if you think that then maybe you should come and join me in hunting western washington blacktail deer during archery season and see who is the better hunter? You’d be so lost out in my woods you wouldn’t know which way was up boy! I’ve been successful in taking my 1 deer limit for the past 6 years my father who has been hunting for over 40 years has never had a streak like that and if you ask anyone from washington they will tell you the tough terrain and circumstances we deal with. So if your gonna start claiming things think about the other people first. And as I’ve said before I’m happy this guy had the opportunity of a lifetime to kill these animals!

  242. jim
    98 mos ago

    wow….I can’t believe I spent the last two evenings reading this blog…you sounds like a bunch of teenagers sitting around talking *&*&$%#@… if we don’t stop fighting each other, there won’t be anyone left to fight the real fight (the tree huggers),as for Kevin, please don’t confuse fair chase with a good time…as for the guys at thunder mountain, if you can make a living for yourselves and your family’s doing what you love, then great for you, but please make sure you are double fencing, so your ranch elk can not have any through the fence contact with the wild elk in your area, we don’t need any more cases of CWD going around…has Kevin ever tried to enter those two great bulls in the B & C or the pope & young, HECK NO..so get of his back, and climb on the back of some tree huger, I’m sure we all know some of them, if not, there the ones that are winning the real fight….game ranching is fact of life, and can be a great wildlife management tool, but please don’t save a spot for me…I will be out hunting and guiding for these truly amazing animals in the wild of British Columbia and Alberta….as for you so called ethical hunters out there, remember the story about the guy who lived in a glass house and couldn’t stop throwing stones….lets take ether one of those great bulls and put him on public land, lets even put him 10 yards from you, broadside, screaming his head off…by the way, it’s two minutes past legal shooting time, but there’s a full moon,….DO YOU SHOT…just something for you to think about….

  243. Dennis Tillman
    97 mos, 3 wks ago

    sounds to me like there are alot of green horn (tree huggers)out there but hey any bull taken with pride and gratitude is a plus in my book just to be out there in the wild and listening to the natures calls is the right place to be. Congrats on that bull.

  244. 97 mos, 3 wks ago

    it isn’t right that you hunt fenced in bulls. I can almost guarantee if it wasn’t fenced in you wouldn’t of had the chance to come back to the 502 bull the next year!

  245. Dennis Tillman
    97 mos, 3 wks ago

    I can understand that fenced in hunting is alot of crap. Where i come from is all open to any and every type of animal free to cross into the land we hunt. We get elk from jackson migrating in to our country and elk migrating from the red desert, and all the surrounding mountains so I say fenced in hunting is alot like picking your best chicken out of the coop. “Don’t Make any Sense”!

  246. Kevin D
    97 mos, 3 wks ago

    I’ll throw this in for what its worth.. We all see some amazing animals in different magazines and websites. This website argueably has some of the the best animals ever harvested featured in it. I’ve learned to disassociate myself with anything but the animal. I know firsthand that even the most rank amateur hunter can harvest the most spectacular trophy. Look at the current world record nontypical whitetail. Fate has even struck me when i harvested a 200+in whitetail. I tend to disassociate the hunter from the animal. I give the animal the full respect it deserves. The animal grew the antler, the hunter merely was in the right place at the right time and killed it. Which brings me to the next point and a point which has been previously brought up. Once in a great while.. perhaps once in a lifetime you will get an opportunity at a really amazing animal. The combination of adrenaline, nerves and pure panic often leads to the demise of the hunter. But if he pulls it off,, stays calm and makes the shot, it is like no other feeling in the world… but if he fouls it up and lets his quarry escape,,, it is a haunting that sometimes never goes away. So should a hunter know that his quarry can only get partially away (via a high fence) then the hunter would (or should) recognize that it is a much lesser victory. I dont know what all the fuss is about.. yes a magnificent bull elk was killed in a high fenced ranch..yes it may have been a somewhat large high fence area (3000acres),, but for all intensive purposes its quite a small area. I have a continuous lease in Kansas that is 4000acres of timber and CRP grass and I feel quite confident that if a 1000lb bull elk was in it and could not escape.. I could definately find it and eventually kill it. So this hunters ability is not much of a factor. Should this guy not have killed this bull it only stands to reason that another guys face would be in that photo. It is our human nature to marvel at the animal, but we should pay very little or no attention to the hunter. We have to be realisits… priviledge has its advantages… Big money buys big bulls.. it doesnt earn you a big bull.. it buys one. I dont congratulate this guy on his harvest, but want to compliment the elk farm who raised it. The one definitive thing about this whole scenario is that they really know how to buy and raise superior genetically engineered elk. There’s my two cents and I like many others here would rather if pen raised animals are going to be shown on Kings outdoor world, then a special category for posting their pictures shoud be made. Just like sheds are considered different than fair chase killed animals.. so should pen raised animals be segregated. Just my opinion.

  247. joe
    97 mos, 1 wk ago

    sweet bull!!!!!!!!!

  248. Freddy
    97 mos ago

    After sifting through the emails pertaining to these bulls, it is obvious that distinction is in order and appropriate between hunting managed and unmanaged (wild game) animals, this is why we have B&C, P&Y vs SCI. It’s as simple as this. To a real hunter, the SCI doesnt mean squat.

  249. Taylor
    97 mos ago

    Caleb
    I have no idea how you scored that bull but im glad that someone agrees with me

  250. Alberta-wes
    97 mos ago

    I am blown away by this one. I guess congrats on a great bull. Although I bet you wished you could say you earned it. In my mind I know I couldnt be proud of it, hell, mabey a little ashamed. But I guess some are driven by different things. Good luck to all this fall.

  251. Muleskinner
    96 mos, 1 wk ago

    I personally know Kevin and can tell everyone that he is an acomplished bow hunter w/ multiple P&Y animals to his credit that would be considered “fair chase” and he has worked long and hard to get to where is today. I am amazed at some of the comments concerning Kevin and his two magnificant bulls. If people do not want to give him credit, fine, I do not see him asking for it. I first received an email from Kevin in ’04 when the first bull was shot, and I clearly saw in his email that it was a “park” bull. The comments range from “earned” to “ashamed” to have shot the bull. The example I would give is this….I shot the largest bull I have ever taken this year less than 1/4 mile from our base camp….Was it “earned” compared to other bulls that I have taken miles from camp that were much smaller? I have also paid thousands of dollars for hunts due to my lack of time or experience hunting a particular animal. Does that make me any less of a hunter? Last time I checked we all enjoy hunting. I can tell you that Kevin is no different. He had an opportunity to take two large animals…So what…Look at the pictures or don’t…If you do not like that SCI accepts the trophy, do not support SCI…

    Muleskinner

  252. jole
    96 mos, 1 wk ago

    I totally agree with you Muleskinner!!!!!!!!!

  253. Justin
    96 mos, 1 wk ago

    WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I DONT CARE IF HE GOT THAT LARGE OF AN ELK. LAST YEAR I SHOT A LITTLE 3 POINT BUCK BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I WILL ALWAYS FEAL MUCH PROUDER OF GETTING THAT DEER THAN I WOULD PAYING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO GO SHOOT AN ELK SITTING THERE BASICALLY WAITING FOR ME TO SHOOT IT. CAUSE WHEN I SHOT MY DEER IT WAS EXCITING BECAUSE I KNEW I HAD ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING. IKNEW I HAD FOUND THE DEER AND I HAD TRACKED HIM AND I PUT EFFERT INTO SHOOTING THIS ANIMAL BUT YOU KNOW LET SCI PUT IT IN. IF THIS ALREADY HAS CAUSED SUCH A FUSS OVER IT EVEN WHEN THEY PUT IT IN THE BOOK EVERY ONE KNOWS ABOUT THAT ELK AND EVERY ONE WILL KNOW HE DIDNT WORK HARD TO GET THTA ELK SO. YOU KNOW WHAT I SAY SCREW ANY HUNTER THAT GOES TO A ELK RANCH A SHOOTS ANY ANIMAL THAT IS NOT A SPORT HELL THATS NOT THE PART OF HUNTING I LIKE IS THE KILL YEA I LIKE TO GET AN ANIMAL BUT AS LONG AS I SEE AN ANIMAL IM FINE WITH IT. CAUSE I JUST LIKE SEEING THEM.

  254. Justin
    96 mos, 1 wk ago

    ALSO ANY BODY IN HERE KNOW HOW TO GET TO THIS RANCH SO WE CAN GO AND TEAR DOWN SOME FENCES

  255. OUTRAGED
    96 mos ago

    HEY HAS ANYONE ELSE NOTICED THAT THIS GUY APPARETLY ACCORDING TO TO THE 255 OTHER COMENTS THIS GUY HAS ABOUT 50 OR 60 VERY CLOSE FRIENDS THAT WAS EITHER THEIR WHEN HE GOT THE ELK OR KNOWS HIM CAUSE HES (THEIR BEST FRIEND) WAT EVER

  256. JUSTIN
    96 mos ago

    hey everyone you need to check out this website it shows how much a hunt is in a fenced area but also shows that there is 10000 acres for them to roam around
    http://bearmountainranch.net/fall.html?gclid=CMKbn_6d0YcCFRhaDgodiGoiIg#private

  257. One Hell of a Hunter
    96 mos ago

    so last year i was hunting on PUBLIC land and come across the tracks that were huge!!! so i follow them and you wouldnt believe it but it was a 9×2 point bull! it was the craziest lookn bull i had ever seen. perfect 9 points then two points that went straight down in to the ground! so i put my gun up and shot the weird bull. And dropped it right there. Should i have got this scored? not sure?

  258. jim
    96 mos ago

    Wooooo Justin…you don’t think that might be a little to harsh .. tearing down the fences on private property ….are you not afraid of tearing that white robes you guys wear.. But I guess it at least covers up that RED NECK of yours

  259. CaliforniaGirl
    96 mos ago

    Have any of you seen the photo of the elk that says that the “elk was killed with a bow in the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness. He green scored 575″ and should net out at about 530″ non-typical. He has an unbelievable outside spread of 79″. This is the biggest bull ever taken with any weapon.” ? Does anyone know who killed it? Could it be an escapee from a high-fence ranch?

  260. Taylor
    96 mos ago

    hey justin i haven’t gotten those pics you promised what the heck

  261. Justin
    96 mos ago

    I have a poor photocopy of the 575 bull mentioned by Cal. Girl in post 260. The elk is humungous. I can not find anything beyond her post about it (although I haven’t looked terribly hard). This photo is from an email (all the interesting information is missing from the photo copy). The email caption is exactly as Cal. Girl wrote. This photocopy was possessed by a patron of a local tavern in Oregon.

    I suspect this is not geniuine, as this thing should be popping up all over iSpace if it were real.

    Justin

  262. dylan
    96 mos ago

    i dont see how in the world the same guy shot both of those manster elk . it is a big deal but i do not care about it because there is no telling how much that guy payed to be told where these elk were and where to sit and when to sit at that spot .
    I was very proud that i shot my first buck it was not that big of a buck but it was a 10 point buck but i did not have no one to tell me where to kill these buck. but i very excited for this guy and i would be proud to.

  263. LV Twins
    96 mos ago

    I just received an e-mail in which a bull taken on the Idaho Montana border was killed with a bow and should net out at about 530″ non typical and green scored 575″. Anyone know whether it’s factual or a doctored up photo? It’s an incredible photo.

  264. LV Twins
    96 mos ago

    I just read some of the posts about the 160 head of eld escaping from the Idaho preserve. If the picture I have is real, it makes me wonder if that elk wasn’t an escapee? That would actually take away from the wow factor if it turned out that the record was farm-raised. How would that be scored–if it were raised on a farm and shot in the wild?

  265. Alberta-wes
    96 mos ago

    post# 252, muleskinner.
    In reading your post, I think you have missed the point. Your friend is seeking fame and attention for something that is immoral, and unethical, and quite frankly, has not a damned thing to do with fair chase hunting, conservation, or wildlife management. I believe my time away from it all, is too valuable to waste chasing overly large racked holsteins. Although I have shot and butchered a cow or two for the freezer. At any rate, enjoy your hunt from the top of the barn. At best, those two elk might dress up my wifes horn garden in the back yard. Oh ya, please stop using the word hunting, and that garbage in the same sentence. You guys are unbelievable.

  266. Ty Weingart
    96 mos ago

    No matter what anyone says, this is not hunting this is in fact the purchase of a bull elk and the the killing of that elk. I personally have no problem with this, i just wish people would call it what it is.
    thanks

  267. nate
    96 mos ago

    Hunting is something some people dont understand. It is not shooting an animal that is inside a fence. Personaly I dont think it should be legal to have these ranches. I have been elk hunting since 1994 and have killed three bull elk all above 300 a 311 boone & crocket a 306 pope & young, and a 361 pope & young all three were on publice land & open hunts, that in my opinion gives me more braging rights than bolth of these elk that he shot

    P.S did you call them in with the sound of a grain buckett or a elk call

  268. Chuck Norris
    96 mos ago

    So Kevin, what is it like bugling in a domestic elk like that? Does he come running to you when you drive the hay truck in the middle of the field? Oh yeah i bet the price is a little more than about thriry head of cattle. Why don’t you just go to the cattle auction? Oh yeah they don’t have a record book for buying cattle.

    Chuck

  269. Dave
    96 mos ago

    Chuck…another jealous person. What do you care, if he has the money, let him do it. I replied long time ago above, read my reply. Do you drive a Mercedes, Hummer, Ferrari, whatver? I don’t, I don’t have the money, but if I did have the money, I would probably drive one. I don’t golf, I hate golf, but I’m glad it gives others such great pleasure. I don’t watch Football on TV, would rather be out in the wilderness snapping photo’s of elk, birds, etc. with my camera. But for those that love the Sunday game, good on them if it makes them happy, it isn’t any harm.

    Kevin isn’t do any harm to you. You don’t know him, so why would you take jabs at him…

  270. 96 mos ago

    Let me tell you people what i know about these high fenced hunts. I live in Wyoming and hunt fair chase, thats what i belive is right. I haved worked at one of these game farms in Saskatchewan for 5 years now( will not mention the ranch name). The only reason i do it is because of the money. Let me tell what really goes on inside the fence- In the morning we take our hunters out, they all shoot their elk in the first couple hours, then in the afternoon we go to the holding pen(where the elk are kept) and load 4 bulls into a fifth wheel horse trailer. Looking into the trailer disgusts me, the bulls are so large that they must duck their heads, you can see the whites of their eyes, it almost seems as though they know that they are doomed. Then we drive to the pen where the elk need to go and drop them off. The next morning four more hunters show up and we take them to that pen and they shoot those four elk in under a few hours. We do this every day for 30 days. Those of you who say you would shoot one of these elk fair chase or not are wrong. If you could see what i have seen on one these farms you would think otherwise. I would never even think about shooting one of these elk, as it is absolutly disgusting what goes on. I just wanted to tell all of you what really goes on inside the fence, because it is not sugar coated like some people think it is.

  271. Corey
    96 mos ago

    Thats freakin pathetic, if it bothers you to see it, why do it???

  272. Alberta-wes
    96 mos ago

    If what you say is true, and if you participate “only for the money”, All I have to say to you is WAY TO GO. I believe men are judged by their actions.

  273. nate
    96 mos ago

    people how hunt on these farms are people how have know idea about what the country life is about they are stupid computer nerds that want to go back to yhe office and show off there pictures. I bet 90% of them dont tell people they shot it in a high fence becase they are embarrassed, and they should be the are big babies that kant hunt like a real outdoorsman

  274. 96 mos ago

    Subject: New World Record

    Shot with a bow!

    New World Record

    Email I received………….

    This Elk was killed with a bow in the Selway-Bitterroot
    Wilderness. He green scored 575″ and should net out at about 530″
    non typical. He has and unbelievable outside spread of 79″.
    This is the biggest bull ever taken with any weapon.

  275. 96 mos ago

    Sorry, but worth seeing

  276. 96 mos ago

    OK, I hope I got this right.
    http://brian.gq.nu/Recordelk.html

  277. Shaun
    96 mos ago

    I have just received the latest pictures of the 530+ bull from the “Selway Bitteroot”. They are of this bull, in velvet, on flat, fenced ground eating from what looks like a dog dish. This is sad, very sad to have to put that kind of BS out there to make yourself look like a hunter. By the way, I live within a few miles of the Selway and knew from the start that this pic was BS

  278. John
    96 mos ago

    Any TRUTH to this BIG BULL or is it ALOT of BULL??????
    What year was it shot and is it a FAIR CHASE? I’ve shot a Bull on 40,000 acres of private land in Montana. This land is surround by National Forest Service land. The Elk know that it is safe to be on this land because the 40,000 acres was private and the owners did not let alot of people hunt on this land. We knew the owners and got access to hunt this land and no cost ot us. The Elk were in huge herds, 150 -200 animals. Would this be classified as Fair Chase? They could run any where they wanted, but they acted like cattle. They followed the lead Bull, coming back towards us and one Bull stopped. He was shot where he stopped and then we were able to drive to him, loaded him whole. We did not have a payloader, just 5 of us lifting him into the truck. It was the BEST meat that I’ve had, better than the meat at the store. I would hunt like this again.

  279. LV Twins
    96 mos ago

    Shaun, any way you could share these pics with us like Brian did? I’ve been skeptical, and I too live withing a few miles of the Selway. I definitely am curious.

  280. Tom
    96 mos ago

    People are complaining about High Fence. But NO-One is saying how many acres this ranch is. I know of a Hunting range by where I hunt. It’s NOT that easy. You still have to get close. It’s not like they tie them to a tree. I guess what I am saying is all the fence does is keep the animals from totally getting away. For the amount of money you pay, it better. Not a fan of high fence. But it makes in necessary to keep that many more people out of our hunting area. Plus Hunting is getting to be a Big Dollar sport. Feel lucky you still have a place to hunt.

  281. Shaun
    96 mos ago

    They are all posted on the other blog titled “The Biggest Elk-575 Archery Bull?” Those are all the ones I have, FYI I did not take those pics, they were emailed to me

  282. Wyocatman
    96 mos ago

    I have read all the comments on the pair of domestic giants killed by Kevin Reid. I m from the Pinedale Wyoming area and I am no stranger to hunting or the work and dedication it takes to harvest a big game animal. I will not say that I am the Great White Hunter, I just love big game and the great outdoors. Thru reading these comments I can tell there are alot of people who are very passionate about their opinion on what is and is not ethical. I dont think anyone should be ridiculed for their opinion, its not right. I do not know Kevin and I am sure he is a stand up guy. He did not ask anyone for recognition of his domestic trophy’s and probably did not want all the hype over something as small as spending the money he earned how he saw fit. High fence killing is just that, killing. It has no place in hunting publications that promote fair chase. Was he ethical in his decision to take these animals? I would say yes. He did not waste these animals, he did not torture these animals. It looks like he cleanly killed and processed these elk. I think someone said he donated the meat. That to me is respectable. Now on the subject of the Selway elk. All indication and some very incriminating evidence suggest that these clowns killed a moster of an animal in a controled environment (in a different country) and then tried to say they killed it locally to get in the P & Y record book. If I was those people i would hide my face in shame for the rest of my life. At least to the real hunting community. High fence is high fence and fair chase is fair chase. Each to his own and shame on the guys who cheat.

  283. 95 mos, 4 wks ago

    I have read through alot of the comments that every one is making and I dont know about the rest of you but I am not out there to hunt for trophy bulls, I am out there to provide meat for my family. After all, thats what it all started out as, if I am lucky and come across a big bull you bet I’m going to bag it. All I can say about hunting on a ranch is wow that is some pretty exspensive meat, when I go out and bag an elk it usually cost me around $ 1.50 a pound to process it on my own. It took a number of years and alot of kills to get the price down that low. But its all about savin a buck and providing meat for the family. When I go to the neighbors and get one of his beef cows from his farm it usually runs about $2.00 to $3.00 a pound to process it myself. Hunting elk on a farm the way it sounds must cost some where around $100.00 a pound. Man am I in the wrong bussiness, I need to start an elk farm.

  284. Robert B
    95 mos, 4 wks ago

    This is like shooting cattle, he should not get any credit for shooting livestock. Wild animals are not confined but free to roam where they want. Shooting a monster bull inside a fence is as challenging as killing a parrot in a cage with a 10 guage

  285. Idaho Hunter
    95 mos, 4 wks ago

    ANYTHING that is shot in a cage is easy. When you have to scout and hunt your tail off just to shoot a cow or a small bull is a trophy to me. If the criter you are hunting can’t run for miles and miles through God’s country it is an easy kill in my book.

    From the reall hunters in Idaho.

  286. rollinnolan
    95 mos, 4 wks ago

    Unbeleivable how the killing of an animal can cause grown men to banter at each other like women. It is very simple; he didn’t try and put it in a record book or lie about where he killed it. Get off his back and leave him alone. No it isn’t hunting but he never said he was stalking this beast for days in the pouring rain…he never made any comment like that. It is a pinned animal….he has money….he shot it…he didn’t hunt it. It is apples and oranges comparison for sure.

  287. Daniel lopez
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    i like the big bull u nailed how did u carry it out and how much did it weight i hope u mount it that would just be a waste of a bull head hope to hear from u soon

  288. jon cummings
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    are these bulls fed steroids for growth?thats cheating in my opinion

  289. don gibbs
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    record book or not id love to have on my wall really nice animals

  290. jolly
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    fenced in hunting is the lazy man’s way of hunting. it is turning non hunters into anti hunters and giving a bad name to all of hunting. to me and many other hunters it is not even considered hunting. after hunting 12 yrs. in a small mountain range in in wyoming, i along with my 10 and 12 yr. old boys killed a 426 gross 416 net bull on public land, national forest. yes they are out there you just have to get out and walk.

  291. chris
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    why did you remove the domesticated farm animal tag from its ear. oh that is an elk well maby you should try public lands. in my mind that is poor hunting ethics. i hope you ate the meet or did you discard that along with the ear tag.

  292. jerry
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    well, before even more of you drool over the farm raised elk and think this is anything like hunting let’s consider the mess up in Driggs (only an hour or so away from Soda Springs). The elk farm up there managed to lose over 100 elk that are probably infected and certainly not the same genetics as the Yellowstone herd. Id F&G is spending sportsmen’s money to control a problem created because trophy hunters want to hang something on thier wall -without the skill and effort it takes to do it by fair means. And you wonder why people increasingly dislike hunting?

  293. Robert B
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    To Rollinnolan, I guess we know where your moral values stand. Shooting penned animals is wrong regardless of who you are and how much money you make. These domesic animals add disease and deformity into wild herds and should be erradicated as was done her in Montana. You guys need to read the Eastmans Hunting Journal. Eastmans is all about fair chase and most of it on public lands

  294. Dane
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    Shooting fish in a barrel. Shooting elk in a fenced in death trap. Where is the sportsmanship in that?

  295. Matt Dorr
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    Great Bull, I’ve hunted high fence and I’ve hunted open range so let me say it’s all about the fellowship of the hunt. As long as the animal was taken with respect and legal I say Amen.

  296. wyocatman
    95 mos, 3 wks ago

    #294 Jerry,
    Well put. Not only is the Idaho F&G spending your money on a problem that shouldve never occurred, but the Wyoming F&G is spending time and resources on this problem too. These high fence game farms are rolling in the green they should have plenty of capitol to maintain fences and vaccinate these animals. And they certainly should be out there trying to recover their merchandise. Anyway, well put.

  297. Bryon
    95 mos, 2 wks ago

    Hey this is an amazing elk. That was also incredible shot it looks like. Well good luck the next years.

  298. SE Id hunter
    95 mos, 2 wks ago

    #294 Jerry
    You are correct, the Id F&G are spending sportman funds to rid the area of the farm elk. The Governor ordered depredation hunt is happening near Ashton, ID. Ashton is just south of Yellowstone National Park. It is concerning that these guys are not maintaining their fences or preventing their elk from escape. At $5k and up per bull, you would think they should have to repay the state for the cost of these occurences! As far as the shooter-bull, it is not for me. If he can afford it, go for it. I just don’t think they deserve to be compared to any world record. They sure are beautiful animals no doubt about it.

  299. Jake Chaney
    95 mos, 2 wks ago

    Try Hunting fair chase, otherwise do not talk about it. I can just imagine what kind of “accomplished hunter” you are!

  300. Clayton
    95 mos, 2 wks ago

    The thing is guys, is that I can’t really see a difference between this and some guided hunts on private land. I have been bowhunting public land in Wyoming just north of Three Forks Ranch for several years now. And to me, I dont see anyone who hunts private land with a guide as a real hunter. I mean all you have to do is follow your guide to the elk and shoot it. There’s no hunting or scouting on your part involved. There just needs to be a SEPERATE RECORD BOOK FOR PUBLIC LAND TROPHIES!!

  301. Tommy
    95 mos, 2 wks ago

    Guys,
    If you consider taking an animal in a caged (fenced) area, it IS not fair chase. Plain and simple. I live in Soda Springs. No argument needed. To the dorks out there that say “I’d love to have that on my wall!!!”- You probably don’t know what fair chase and ethics entails. Is that what makes you a good hunter? Having the largest bull around hanging on your wall, regardless of whether it was caged or not? Come on. Some people have no conscience. You can do it, but don’t call it hunting. Call it paying to shoot a caged elk. Plain and simple. You probably yearn to know what it’s like to take a wild animal….you know these are domesticated, right (the fenced bulls)? I challenge you to go out in the unfenced wild habitat and spend some quality time on the hill hunting free ranging, wild elk. You might learn more about yourself and the difference between my ethics and yours. Maybe you don’t like the challenge. I’m not righting back on this blog, so please if you get the chance, all you fenced, proud, tame elk hunters- Get out into the wild and see what it’s really all about. Thanks.

  302. James travis
    95 mos, 2 wks ago

    I cant believe the size of this bull. But Is it safe to say that because it was in a high fence area, that maybe some extra effort was given to help the growth of the antlers. There are many things on the market for rapid and mass growth of the horms.

  303. Michael
    95 mos, 1 wk ago

    The bull is very big no doubt, but when shot on a game ranch, I get the idea that the elk maybe isnt so large. His antlers were obviously given some special nutrient, and he is definitely an unbelieveable bull. Too bad this hunter had to CHEAT to get him though

  304. Mike Wombolt
    95 mos, 1 wk ago

    This is ridiculous!! That is a nice bull, but anyone with enough money could go out and shoot him in a fenced area. Its people like this that ruin hunting for the rest of us. Now when someone shoots a legitmate bull that would normally be the world record, it wont be recognized. Has our society come to the point where hunting has become political in the fact that the person with the most money gets the biggest elk. Those fenced areas should be illegal and required to take them down. I think next year I will go to the zoo and shoot my elk, its no different.

  305. Nate
    95 mos, 1 wk ago

    I can’t believe the junk that I have read in this blog, I am an avid hunter in Idaho and have never had the opportunity to take a bull elk. Whether it was the wheather or no one to go hunting with, whatever. If I had the chance to go hunting on any land that i knew there was any bull elk whether it was fenced or not i would be in. I know this was a fenced elk but that does not give anyone the right to even say that it is anything less than an impressive bull. If mother nature is feeding an elk or a deer or whatever animal it still gets fed, as for how those elk were fed, who cares, they were raised and harvested. congrats on taking an impressive bull and that is just about the end of that for me.

    ps……what about the other elk that are taken on ranch’s every year….i don’t hear anyone complaining about that so much as a guy that just managed to make most of the country green with envy because no matter what they feed the elk in their areas they are lucky to see even a 300″ bull in their lifetime

  306. Mike Wombolt
    95 mos, 1 wk ago

    Nate, from my understanding you dont really understand what everyone else is upset about. You really should go out and take some time to do an elk hunt. Its not the fact that the bull was fed that people are upset about, its the fact that shooting a caged animal is not appealing to them. The whole idea of hunting is the stalking of the prey. Yeah I agree that, this elk is probably the biggest I have ever seen and congrats to him but there is no way that he should be recognized for shooting a world record. I just dont see the fun in walking up to an animal and shooting it with no stalking. I could do that on the ranch any day of the week with the cows, but when it comes to wildgame hunting, it just becomes ridiculous.

  307. robert
    95 mos ago

    well that was a amusing 1 anr 1/2 hours of reading. i can’t decide if it was from adults or all 13 yr olds. but my hats off to mark for trying to add a little humor to this very threatning situation, as it sounds we all don’t have long to hunt wherever we choose! this post started as add your own so heres mine. opinons are like a–holes everybody has one, i dont know if mine is better than yours or visa-versa. but the way the country is headed i doubt any of us are going to have the choice of carrying any kind of a weapon if we all dont stand up for all of us togather inside or outside the fence. although we sure could use a high fence along that southern border to keep our game in and not let the other sides herd congrate on our grasses. im sure i offended some, well all i have to say is have a nice day and just “GET’RE DONE” and quit whining.

  308. robert
    95 mos ago

    PS. I FORGOT TO MENTION TO READ THE GUN BAN IN SAN FRAN.IT DOES INCLUDE BOWS TOO.

  309. colorado hunter
    95 mos ago

    Huge Bull! What I want to know is, what was bigger? That Bull’s Rack or the fence post that held it in? He may be a great hunter, but hunt public land, shoot the same thing, and I will at least give you your props!

  310. Tony M.
    94 mos, 2 wks ago

    Nice bulls, First off congrats on bieng able to afford such tags. Hopefully one day i’ll be successful enough to do so. I guess In the mean time i’ll stick to the Gila bulls that I had been hunting for six years with archery. Finally the year came where luck was on my side. I drew a Q- HD tag for unit 16D Sept,16-24 the second day I had a chance at 340-350 class bull. I under estimated the distance and though him out to be 35 yards after releasing my arrow I was soon to learn he stood 39 yards. Three days later I was able to call in a hansom five by five and arrowed him at 27 yards, the good was is that I was all alone. That had been a dream of mine since I was 16 years old. It was truly a hunt of a lifetime! Sorry what I really meant to say is I must of seen a dozen bulls that would score 360+ and three that were if not 400 class bull’s pretty dang close. So if your interested in a real challenge give that a try, Plus it will be a fraction of the cost.

  311. Phillip From NM
    94 mos, 2 wks ago

    Congradulations on takeing these monster bull inside a fence, there are some expensive bulls out there but i guess its all worth it when they go on the wall. I know im gonna put my hard earned gila monster up.

  312. NM-Hunter Tony m. fair chase 100%
    94 mos, 2 wks ago

    Phillip, how the heck are you buddy? You almost got you a bull this year, hah! It was just to bad I couldn’t stay a littlle longer. I wish I could’ve. Well what do you think of these bulls? Giants, aren’t they? but I have to say those public land bulls we’ve been hunting are starting to look good and probably wouldn’t look so bad next to these pet’s. Well I’ll give you a call later, and well talk real hunting.

  313. AZ Hunter Brian B
    94 mos, 2 wks ago

    First of all, this guys no hunter! Second, anybody can hunt on a high fence ranch. Nice shot but my grandmother could kill a bull like that if she had 3 weeks to hunt a caged animal. Why dont you come and hunt with us big boys on public land so we can show you how to hunt! This would be like fishing in a 10″x10″ pond for a world record catfish. Just because you catch it, doesn’t make you a fisherman. 99% of hunters would be more proud of my 6×6 370 bull than yours anyday.

  314. Guy Richards
    94 mos, 2 wks ago

    I think all the comments I read like the previous one (and 80% of the others) are not very well thought out and do not make much sense. How can anyone say this guy is not a hunter because he killed this bull behind a high fence? Do you know for a fact that he hunts there exclusively?

    I have a buddy that owns a high fence outfit and I have hunted there and killed a few russian boars, etc. It is fun. I will guarantee you that I am a hunter. I have hunted public lands in OR, WA, ID, MT, CO, OK, TX, AR, AK, BC and Mexico too. I have more big bucks and bulls on my wall than most sportsmans shows. Most of them were killed on public lands.

    Everyone knows hunting behind a high fence doesn’t compare to hunting in the national forest. No one said it did. You may sit around and watch football on Saturday, this guy went out and had some fun at a high fence outfit. Who cares?

    Why all the anger? If I had to guess I would say it is nothing more than jealousy. Unlike most people, this guy can afford to drop $50,000 when he gets bored on a Saturday.

  315. Kasey
    94 mos, 2 wks ago

    Hey Guy Richards, I think you and your trophy room just called me out. Well you are right, I do wish I had $50,000 to drop on a high fenced livestock hunt, that would be great! But, I don’t so myself and the rest of working class America will continue to do it the hard way, no fences, no guides, no outfitters, no private lands just hard working guys with the love of the outdoors and the anticipation of the next season. As far as your trophy room goes thats great, congratulations! I have a number of animals I have harvested over the years and believe you me I am very proud of them, all public land is something that makes me very satisfied.

  316. Guy Richards
    94 mos, 1 wk ago

    Kasey,

    Absolutely nothing personal. Just do not understand all of the hostility toward this guy from perfect strangers. The truth is I much prefer to hunt public land with “working class” people. Remember that most of us “rich guys” work for our money too!

    If you know a way to get tags every year without having to hunt with an outfitter occassionally I would love to hear it! There is nothing more frustrating than trying to crawl into bow range on a big buck with a “guide” in tow!

  317. Lew
    94 mos, 1 wk ago

    Montana has taken the stance that caged hunts or high fenced hunts are not allowed. Myself and my other bow hunting buddies cant afford to pay to hunt such a locale. I cant believe that a bowhunter would feel good about a hunt like this,but maybe Im not seeing all the sides.I guess that Im glad that I live in montana!

  318. buckman
    94 mos, 1 wk ago

    nice bull but fair chase is better

  319. wyocatman
    94 mos ago

    #317 Mr. Richards,

    You are right about some of these responses not being well thought out, but a real hunter is passionate about his or her beliefs. And a real hunter would never, no matter the cost, pay to kill a domesticated animal. IT IS NOT HUNTING AND HAS NO BUSSINESS BEING ADVERTISED IN A HUNTING PUBLICATION, PERIOD!!!! Oh sorry, just me being passionate again.
    Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with someone spending his or her hard earned money how they please. I dont think anyone here does. They just do not want to see hunting become a (he or she who has the most money wins)
    affair. That is not what it is about. Hunting is fair chase and a love for the outdoors. Killing is killing. What direction will you sway your children?

    ps..not all private land hunts, or guided hunts are high fence.
    And a real outdoor enthusiast knows that most high fence establishments are a real threat to hunting. (Disease and genetics) Let wild stay wild……yawn

  320. Guy Richards
    94 mos ago

    #322

    I would like to clarify that I do not consider hunting behind a high fence the same as hunting in the National Forest. Many (not all) of these outfits are more like trip to an expensive grocery store where you kill it before you buy it.

    The “passion” is what surprised me. I love to hunt, and I do it at least 6 weeks every year. For me, hunting is about the time outdoors, time with the family and getting away from it all. I love glassing for a big muley or crawling into bow range on a big bull. Nothing I saw in that picture evoked any passion in me, but no open hostility either.

    That’s is part of the reason I was surprised by many of these comments. In my mind a “real hunter” would not care about who gets labeled a “real hunter” and who is the imposter. And they really would not care whether SCI accepted this bull or not. Who cares what SCI thinks? Does SCI decide what makes a successful hunt or a great trophy?

    As for my family, we will hunt everywhere we can draw tags. Sometimes it is public land in ID, OR, or MT. Sometimes it is private land. But, you are right. We do not hunt behind high fences very often and never for “trophies”.

    I’ll tell you what I do get passionate about: It is this obsession among “hunters” to kill a Boone & Crocket animal or have their trophy recognized by SCI, etc. I do not need some guy with a tape measure to tell me which of my trophies meets his standards. I have my own standards for a successful hunt and inches of horn does not make the list.

    Here is a tidbit you “real hunters” might enjoy. Three years ago I had the privilege of harvesting a B & C moose. When we got ready to fly out, I cut the skull plate in half so the rack would be easier to transport – thus making it ineligible for B & C. I can still see the look on my outfitters face to this day, and it is one of my best memories. And yes, that bull looks great on my wall even without B & C consent.

  321. 94 mos ago

    The arguments have been made, and the bottom line is there IS a difference between true hunters and High Fence Hunters. It is a value system, a mentality if you will.

    As a boy, I grew up in the remote mountains of Wyoming. I hunted my entire life, and due to the high ranking of my father in the Gun World, I had a chance to meet and hunt/guide some of the most influential and famous people in the gun industry (“hunters” ) to ever pickup a bow or gun and hunt.

    For the most part, you see many within very high ranking lose track of what hunting is all about, but instead using their money as their weapon and cutting out most of the sport by paying top dollar to shoot farm animals. Yes, put whatever stamp on it that makes you feel better, but having an animal in a controlled environment is a “farm animal”.

    My father’s property consisted of 40 acres, which I could walk across in a matter of minutes. 500 acres in which to hunt an animal is an incredibly small and I must say rather comical to me when someone tries to imply a vastness of wilderness when it comes to hunting and or the entire ecosystem in which an Elk, or any big game animal is to inhabit.

    To imply that high fence conditions are similar to fair chase hunting within open ranges are just ludicrous, unreasonable and irrational. With high fence hunting, you have a controlled environment, where feed is in fact part of the equation, if not only competing for such, but more importantly a lack predatation (wild and human), and finally restricted movement patterns. High fence areas harbor a vast structure of controls which ensure the animals get large, but also plentiful. As per Darwin, “Adapt, Migrate or Die”. We all know elk move, if not migrate in some parts of the country, and also that their home range can change within their lifetime. Now, fences don’t exactly allow that normal behavior to occur, do they? They allow nothing out, but also nothing in.

    Getting back to money and its affect on hunting, I have no doubt that deep inside the person who spends $25,000 and often much more on a high fence elk hunt, that he has some form of desire to be a hunter if by name only rather than definition. Or maybe to add a nice specimen to their 2500 square foot Game Room. See, I have seen much larger Game Rooms than yours Mr. Richards with animals you likely have no clue existed, guaranteed, and I have grown up learning the mindset behind them. On the outside they are quite impressive, and certainly some of the stories are that in which most hunters dream. The reality is that much of it was controlled if no more than hunting Game Ranches in Africa where the question is not “if”, but instead “how large” of a trophy do you want. The fact is that to be able to achieve this scope of hunting, you HAVE to throw money at the issue and the question of morality is where the line is drawn.

    The truth is, not everyone is a hunter. That is to say that not everyone will themselves take the time to learn all about the animals they stalk and put on their table, or your case wall, but instead, they will pay more than a reasonable amount to remove many of the natural variables that exist as to block their ability to nail a lifetime animal.

    I have seen the gamut of hunters from hard core locals to pretentious people who expect to be cultivated and served their quarry on a plate. As stated earlier, not only did I have the opportunity to get to know some prominent people in the gun industry, I also had the opportunity to guide quite a few as well. Some I would class as hunters (damn good hunters), others were those whose egos mandated the largest of game rooms and all that was important was filling the empty space above the new coffee table with a color matching animal head as so they can impress their next client. As such, I learned from some, and also learned about others. I clearly recall one individual who did nothing but complain about the rugged backcountry and the fact that we rode so deep with horses causing his “bottom” to hurt. This same person was unhappy that during our first stalk on a rather large bull, his girlfriend had a hard time negotiating the terrain so the day was ended with a mandate that I find an easier method. The next day when I tried different tactics of sitting on a route, after his girlfriends second cup of coffee, a moderate 6×6 exited from the trees at a distance of less than 200 yards and the shot was taken only to completely miss the animal. As expected, the Bull started to run, but I was able to stop him with a cow call. This time, the “hunter” made a hit and after tracking the animal for about a half mile, I found him. Yes, I said I, because the “hunter” informed me he would wait for me until I found the animal. Once I found the Elk with a bullet missing the boiler plate, but finding its mark low in the belly, I went back to retrieve hunter and huntress as to get pictures. Once al pictures were complete, a shake of the hand and he asked me how to get back to camp. I informed hit how to hit the main ridgline and let the horses lead him back. After field dressing, quartering and hanging the elk myself for later retrieval, I took the head/cape I rode back to camp greeted happily with the “hunter” gleaming and proudly explaining the story of his hunt to his friends

    I have a room with a few of my own with some of my greatest achievements including my son’s first spike all the way up to a couple monsters I have been lucky enough to take, lest I say on my own. I do fairly well financially, so I am able to dedicate a large room in my home for what I call my library. Within that room, I must admit I have my trophy’s as to remind me of my accomplishments, but most importantly I have rows and rows of books and educational materials on every animal I have ever hunted, topo maps, etc. See, I am a hunter and my mentality is that I will hunt my prey with respect and provide them with a fair opportunity at living. If they can avoid me, then they will likely live another year and maybe even succumb to old age. Something animals in the high fence areas never have the opportunity to do, because their existence has been noted, followed and DETERMINED.

    So, to the high fence hunters. Having the luxury of seemingly endless bank accounts, it is sometimes difficult to set forth the mindset of effort and hard work as to realize your dream, or maybe it is just a “more efficient” use of time. Money can cut out much of the red tape and provides an opportunity at animals most hunters will never see in their lifetimes if one wants to sell their soul. It blinds you to easily lose sight as to why you ever began hunting in the first place. Hunting by definition is someone who “searches” for something. With high fence hunting, the search is unnecessary as the animals have been home grown to maturity waiting for year when management deems it appropriate or financially profitable enough to be harvested. Sure, it may take some time for the guide to determine in which corner of the property Butch is hiding. Unfortunately for Butch, he feels safe from the humans that he has grown familiar with over the years and is not very concerned at their presence until the bullet rips through his body.

    Call it what you will, and perhaps write whatever you may that in your mind will help you believe this is a valid approach in harvesting an incredible example of an animal of proportions few will ever see. Somehow work it into your mind that to pickup that airline ticket, blow the dust off of your Weatherby and live in the comfort of that 5 star resort that farms large animals so that you can harvest the bull of a lifetime. I do admit, seeing the bull’s picture he is huge, but as soon as I see “high fence”, I realize it was just a farm animal. There’s a reason P&Y does not recognize these animals…

    And to the people that try to imply a jealousy? You just don’t get it. There is NO hunter jealous of this tactic, that you can be sure of. In my case, I have the money, but not the desire. My values are much higher than that, and I truly enjoy my experience much more than those high fence hunters ever could. See, hunting is not just about killing something larger than 99% of people will ever see. Heck, shall I go even further and say it is not about the kill at all. My guess is that those of you who do high fence hunt, or write of jealousy, you likely will not understand the last statement anyway…

    In your mind you will believe what you will, and you may even fool the unsuspecting and inexperienced co workers as to the magnitude of your abilities in the outdoor world. When you try this with a true hunter, they will discredit everything about you as an outdoorsman, but have no fear maybe they will sharpen your hunting knife for you, sight in your gun or even point you in the direction of the correct road to your hunting destination.

    Oh, BTW Mr. Richards, “real hunters” are people who take pride in the outdoors, who respect animals, who respect the outdoors, who challenge themselves in harvesting wild animals in the outdoors, and understand hunting is not a sport, but instead a way of life and a measure of how one lives their life, some including myself would say a religion. Real hunters do not discredit high fence shooters as hunters just because the trophies are not recognized. Real Hunters do however use B&C as a bible if you will, or rule book with guidelines as to follow. The only point to B&C not accepting the animals is that there is a standard established that is to be followed as to provide fair and reasonable rules as to ensure ethics is of merit and confirmation can be made. This ensures people are not afforded unfair advantages. Similar to trying to eliminate steroids in athletics as to ensure athletes do not have unfair advantages, but my guess is you believe that is morally acceptable as well…

  322. 93 mos ago

    Wow! Those are some impressive, beautiful animals. However I am not impressed that they were shot in a high fenced area. I’m glad high fenced game isn’t included in P&Y or B&C. Shooting an animal that can’t get away from you and claiming it as a trophy is just wrong. There is no way I would trade my lil free ranging 391 bull for a paid guarenteed 400 or 500 class. The thrill of the hunt, working hard and the reward was the best experience. That is true hunting. And by the way from a female perspective you guys are acting like a bunch of young boys not women or girls. I don’t know any women that gripe half as bad as some men on here.

  323. rod
    92 mos, 3 wks ago

    I love listening to all of the fair chase anti”s. We don’t need to worry about the PETA and anti hunters because these hunters are joining them. What is the difference in going to Africa and hunting 10,000 acre high fence ranch with 6 watering holes and blinds set within 20yds. from them. The PH takes you to your blind and after the day is done, the PH comes and picks you up and the trackers put a fence around the water tank so the animals have to wait and drink the next day. Do you think that is fair chase. What about all of the people that head to Canada on Black Bear hunts and the outfitter has bait barrels out with trail cams and you can see what size bear is coming to the bait and what time, so you don’t have to sit in your stand to long. Boy that is a tough fair chase hunt. Same with the Canadian whitetails. They bait them with corn and hay and put out the trail cams so you can pick what box bllind you want to hunt in and know what bucks are coming to the feed station everyday, what a fair chase that is. What about Texas when they sit you in a tripop along a dirt road and then run the feeder wagon spreading corn down the road until they get to your tripod and then they pile it up, that sounds like fair chase. What about owning 600 acres in Kansas and planting food plots and putting out your feeder and trail cams so you can see exactly where to set your stand and this is legal in that state. You call that fair chase. What about Mexico where they drive through the desert with a two story jeep with the hunter sitting above with his rifle until he sees an animal he wants to shoot. They stop the jeep and he rests his rifle on the side rails and shoots the animal. Does that sound like a fair chase. I have been on a high fence hunt in a 400 acre parcel. It was very thick cover and there was nothing flat. You were either hiking up or down. The hunt I went on, they put the bull that I wanted and then they put in a smaller bul and 5 cows. It took me 4 days to get close enough for a shot with a bow. He had just came out of a wallow when I got within 40yds. Previous days I was busted by the cows and did not get a shot and there was no feeding stations or blinds. It was all walk and stalk. It appears that all of the people that are condeming these types of hunts do not know much about them or they plan on joining PETA in the future. I would like to challenge them to go on the hunt I was on. Most of them probably would not make it all day. I have hunted in the mountain states and the hiking there was not any different.I would like to congratulate the gentlemen on his elk and I hope he mounts them and enjoys looking at them as they do belong to him and not all of the other crybaby”s. #18 you might as well hang up you bow!!! This is enough I’m going HUNTING!!!!

  324. jole
    92 mos, 3 wks ago

    I totally agree with you Rod!!!

  325. Dan
    92 mos, 3 wks ago

    Rod & Jole, Thanks for your very insightful comments. I to hunted a 5000 acre high fence operation in Utah that was every bit as challenging as my public land DIY hunts (by the way, I have killed 3 elk on public land). The high fence adventure was more fun than the other three, as I was alone and didn’t have to compete with shooters on ATV’s, campers / hunters down the road blaring radios’ late into the night (drinking to all hours), road hunters shooting from the back of pickups, these are all experiences I have encountered during my public land hunts. Besides, in AZ your lucky to get drawn for elk every 7-8 years as I am still waiting again to get drawn for a tag after 7 years. If done correctly, high fence is now my preferred way!

  326. Darrin Hodgkiss
    92 mos ago

    I want to say that yes these bulls are impressive. However saying that i do not consider it hard hunting in a high fence when the guide inside the fence has been doing all of the work to find the elk for the hunter. I am from texas and we have alot of high fences. It is easy to get a shot at a record buck. It is about doing the work yourself and putting in the time. my uncle has killed six giant six point bulls. One that scores 350. He has never had a guided hunt and i am moving to idaho in five months and will never have a guided hunt. I want to take these bulls by my self and put in the time and effort that is required. thanks

  327. rod
    92 mos ago

    Darrin, the hiight fence hunt I went on I never had a guide. He let me out of the truck in the dark of the morning and a cell phone. Said if I don’t hear from you I will see you at dark. This went on until my 4th day when I finally got the bull I was after. Just because it is high fence it does not mean that it is guided. Darrin you should go to a hunting area of approximately 5,000 acres and a place you have never seen before and you will find out how challenging it is. If you get in thick and steep terain you would find a challenge. Don’t knock it until you have tried it. Leave the Guides at home and do it with a bow. Going on any hunt with a rifle is not much of a challenge when you can shoot out to 600 yds. Go on one of these hunts with a bow and no guide and then respond back.

  328. Darrin Hodgkiss
    91 mos, 3 wks ago

    rod, high fence hunting is not hunting at all. what you have 5,000 acres to hunt on. that is nothing. that is not even free raging. try hunting 400,000 acres of the frank church bitterroot wilderness. 400,000 acres to 5000 if i wanted to pay 20,000 dollars to kill an elk then i better get a shot at a bull. i will never hunt behind a high fence in my life time. i do not want tame bulls

  329. John Dudley
    91 mos, 3 wks ago

    high fence bull have brought CWD to my state…….end of discussion!no elk ever had CWD here before it showed up in FARM RAISED ELK!it is wrong,and it undermines mother nature.No high fenced elk is truly wild!they are fed domestic feed and have NO IDEA what predators really are!IT IS NOT FAIR HUNTING.I am not a jealous hunter,i shoot for meat,and trophies just don’t taste good.I just don’t agree with messing with mother nature,Humans have done more to spread CWD and related forms(hoof and mouth and mad cow)than nature ever dreamed of.Domestic elk are just plain wrong!

  330. rod
    91 mos, 3 wks ago

    Again after reading all of the complaints and fair chase hunters knowledge about how great they are with their fair chase hunts and woodsmanship, I have bow hunted 38years and it has been all on my own until last year I did not draw any tags and I did go on a high fence hunt and I have to admit I was hesitant about it. But it was a blast and I had a wonderful peaceful hunt. It did take me four days before havesting an elk but it wasn’t the kill. It was spending 4 days by myself nobody around but myself and 8 head of elk in 5,000 acres. My second day I never even seen an elk because of the ravens and thick cover. I have read all of the negative remarks from everyone and one thing about it we should all try to support our hunting, because I am sure that PETA and the anti hunters are loving all of these articles and critical remarks that are being made from hunters about other hunters. And if I don’t draw a tag again some year, yes I would go on another high fence hunts. I probably would agreed with alot of you a year ago but after I did it I would have to disagree because it was a very challenging hunt and very physical especially with a bow. And all of you that say these big elk are not able to be registered in any record book tells me you don’t alot about what is going on. These elk can be registered in the SCI Estate Elk Category. All I have to say is that I think everybody should stop arguing amonst ourselves because we have enough anti hunters against us know and all this is doing is kindling the fire. LETS ALL BE SUPPORTIVE OF EACH OTHER AND TRY TO SLAVAGE OUR HUNTING RIGHTS NO MATTER WHERE IT TAKES PLACE.

  331. Darrin Hodgkiss
    91 mos, 3 wks ago

    Rod you might be able to register the elk in sci but there is no way that Boone and Crockett will ever accept high fence, farm, raised and tame bull elk. High fence is not hunting and i do not care what anyone has to say. Eight elk that as you said the elk farmers put into the field for you to hunt is not even a herd. I will always be against high fence hunting. Me and my uncle will always do the hunt on our own. We will have success because we will put in the blood and sweat for the chance to shot a 6pt bull.

  332. rod
    91 mos, 3 wks ago

    I still don’t think alot of you still get it! It still comes down to hunters spporting hunters and I still believe that we should support each other not matter what your beliefs are. If someone don’t belief in high fence hunts that is there oppinion and keep it to yourselfs. We better all enjoy hunting well we can because all of these negative remarks I am sure are being documented by the anti-hunters and if they can get that stopped the other hunting is right behind. SO LETS ALL SUPPORT OR FELLOW HUNTERS NO MATTER HOW THEY DECIDE TO HUNT AS LONG AS IT IS LEGAL.

  333. Derek Shaw
    91 mos ago

    i think that even those these bull elk are both huge and i’m sure the hunter had a great time harvesting them i still do not agree with high fence hunting. i’m glad the boone and crokett club does not recognize these animals in their listings. if they did it would all be the rich that would over take the records. how hard is it to hunt a bull that is fenced in and not used to hunting pressure. some people say it takes skill i say it just takes money. anyone can kill a bull that big if they have the money.

  334. Matt J
    91 mos ago

    As an Idaho resident, and having seen many nice bulls in the wild…and behind fences, these are very nice. But…what is being promoted here is strictly economics. I do not prescribe to it, but if you got money, you can buy yourself one of these. I for one can, but will not, they are farm raised, genetically controlled, and penned. What in that says “hunting”? Nothing!

    I would rather see a rag horn, taken by someone who loves the outdoors, and took the animal on accessible land. That is a hunter, and that is a trophy.

    No offense Kevin, “but that don’t impress me.”

  335. Matt J
    91 mos ago

    One more comment regarding “it is OK so long as it is legal.” Yes, but it does not prescribe to accepted (B&C) hunting ethics. I am a bit disappointed in SCI, although I am a member, the whole spin on SCI is money. Just look at their monthly pub. If that thing does not promote money based hunting, nothing does. Give me a weekend in the Idaho outdoors, and a reasonable chance to harvest, and I call that hunting.

    If ya got’em smoke em, but not in the same room I am in.

  336. Yorn Mcgee
    91 mos ago

    I have looked over many of these comments above and it occurs to me that there are alot of different opinions out there, and they are probally “correct” for the one leaving them. We are all different and that is a good thing. That is one of the many beauties of this country. But be respectful. To even have the freedom to have firearms to shoot, protect or hunt with is awesome. To have the freedom to sit at our desks with a bible or whatever next to us, typing away our thoughts and feelings on our computers in our privately owned homes is a blessing. We all need to realize that. Respect eachother Americans and the rights we have as Americans. Don’t punish or critisize people for doing things you don’t want to do or do not understand. That s a slippery slope to go down. For instance I have no understanding for someone who pushes themselves around on ski’s (cross country) but, hey if they love it and it is legal go for it. We have so many good laws and rules in place we need to enforce them, if someone is drinking and driving or hunting or breaking the laws of any kind they should be nailed to the wall, but leave the law abiding people alone to manage their lives and the animals around us. Try to understand others and respect their opinions. This is the greatest country there is so let’s keep it that way.
    Thank you.

  337. Bob from Helena
    90 mos, 2 wks ago

    High fence or not these are some HUGE BULLS.

  338. Roy D Myers
    90 mos, 1 wk ago

    Killing one of these bulls is not hunting, and if you think it is, go out in the wild and duplicate it. I am sick of guys claiming to be hunters and then finding out that it was all done in a fence. It can be called shooting but never hunting. Please dont face slap the rest of us that dodge cow elk (the ulitmate problem with killing big bulls). A 500″ pen raised bull is not killed with hunting skills. This type of hunting is for guys that dont what to tell their buddies back home for the 10th striaght year that rather than shoot a 300-bull, they just walked away.

  339. Daronda Miler
    90 mos, 1 wk ago

    High fence hunting isn’t hunting pure and simple. If your in it for the record only your missing the whole point of hunting. I think it is disgusting that we allow this and those who boast of their great hunting abilities are a joke. Real hunting takes skill and respect for the animal that is being pursued and these guys have neither. It’s all about ego and testosterone. Shame on those who make a living with this kind of business as well Yes we do live in a country where we have freedom and the right to be capitalistic, but don’t try to convince me that these people should be given any kind of award for harvesting a pinned animal or that the people who promote these hunts should recieve the money they do. We also live in a country where we used to have ethics and scrupples and a code of honor!
    Your not hunters and the owners of these “Elk Farms” are nothing but cons trying to make you guys feel like you are and robbing you blind at the same time. Shame on all of you.

  340. Bart W.
    90 mos, 1 wk ago

    How do these places get the feeder animals in the first place?
    Do they generally gaurantee you will be successful?

  341. Ken Bick
    89 mos ago

    After reading some of the comments on this hunt I decided to put in my two cents worth. Fist of all I have hunted in some of the most rugged elk country in the United States as well as hunting foothills country and private land. In my opinion a hunt on 3000 acres with high fences could be just as much a fair chase hunt as one on twenty thousand acres of private low fenced property, it just depends on the layout. I once hunted on a private ranch in Colorado that was somewhere between 3000 and 5000 acres. Each day we counted over 200 head of elk. The first day we could have taken at least five nice 6 X 6s. It was great fun to be amongst so many elk and it would qualify as a fair chase hunt, however, it was a completely different experience to hunting the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Does that mean the time spent hunting private ranches is unfair? I dont believe so. An animal that has lived to be the size of the ones pictured did not get that way from being shot. They either were hard to take for many years or were kept secluded from the hunting area (perhaps a questionable practice). Regardless of how different the hunt would be on a private high fenced area to a public domain hunt it could still qualify as a good hunt and does not by any stretch of the imagination compare to hunting in a zoo or shooting an animal in a small pinned enclosure. The fact that he took three weeks to finally take the one bull says a lot!!!!!

  342. Dan
    88 mos, 4 wks ago

    Everyone needs to do what they feel is the right way to hunt for them, and people that disagree should place their focus on things that really matter. Jealousy, bitterness or just arguing because you feel your way is the only way to hunt accomplishes nothing but division. I applaud any hunter that scores an elk he is proud of!

  343. Justen Hickman
    88 mos, 2 wks ago

    So with these high fence animals does it feel the same as killing a bull elk that you have to track down in the woods?
    I have killed a couple of bulls all on national forest, the only elk that I have taken on private land has been cows.
    I guess that if I had the money I would spend it like that too.

  344. Tim
    87 mos, 1 wk ago

    Anyone who hunts fair chase on public land is hunting, and is considered a hunter. Anyone who kills animals on private land/ranch’s, with high fences, is considered a shooter………..NOT a hunter.

  345. 1uofacat
    86 mos, 1 wk ago

    There is now way this is a fair chase bull.

    Sorry, but you all need to understand that ranches like this protect these “investements”, that’s why they get so big and they charge top dollar for them. How much feed do you suppose these ranches put out for elk in the winter? How much feed do you suppose they put out for then in drought years? How difficult would it be for ranches to put growth hormones in their feed?

    This is big business, and for $20-30K you’d feed them vitamins and minerals, and even hormones also.

    As far as fair chase, so what it it took this hunter 3 weeks… take 3 months as far as that goes, he has as long as he needs unlike state laws which limit what you hunt with (lighted pins, season lengths, etc.). Not only that, there’s probably no predators inside the high fences short of high paying hunters that this or any other bull has to worry about.

    Very nice farm-raised-protected animal. I bet the ranch even had a name for this animal… what “Monstro or Mr. $30K?” Besides, the ranch needed another brand new Ford F-250!

  346. Clint
    85 mos, 4 wks ago

    Here is the link to how much he paid for the bull…..

    http://www.thundermountainelk.net/rates.html

  347. az elk hunter
    85 mos, 3 wks ago

    it’s not like it was pinned up in a pin like you would have your horses in i think it’s a pritty big ranch high fince or not it’s huge way to go

  348. kyle
    85 mos, 2 wks ago

    boone and crockett has it right not fair chase. might as well be a dairy cow in that picture ,doesnt impress me in the least . one of my friends did one of these hunts for some crazy ram species he came back all happy, i told him he might as well went to the nearest petting zoo with a 30 cal. rifle cause thats pretty much what he did anyways. all these guys come across as just LAZY

  349. Joedjr
    84 mos ago

    We hunt elk on a private ranch with over 2000 acres in North West New Mexico that surrounds public land. During the season with all the hunters chasing the elk off State forest we are fortunate that the elk come over to our property for some seclusion. If we don’t push them off foolishly we are fortunate to have our own herd for the season with our pick of nice trophy elk. I consider the State Forest my high fence.
    We also hunt whitetail and elk on a couple real sweet high fence ranches. Due to the large properties it seems like it’s the same as our New mexico property except YES the animals can’t go off to the neighbors property. It’s still faichase with a twist.
    I enjoy and am fortunate to be able to do both as I please.
    Point being lets not critisize each other in pursuit of what we enjoy doing. If we seperate ourselves than the bad guys who are trying to take our sport away become stronger.

  350. Illinois guy
    84 mos ago

    SOOOO What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who cares if he shot him on a fenced ranch. I also say who cares if it goes in its own record book. As long as My public land bull goes in a completely seperate book. I dont agree with it! but let the guy spend his money the way he wants. At least he is not spending his money trying to stop hunting and hugging trees. Praise God for public hunting its the only way, but dont hand this guy for doing it another way. Lets all just hunt hard and have fun. The truth of the matter is that i will never run into this guy or even have to think of it again. Because I wont hunt a fenced ranch, but as long as he doent tell me how to hunt I wont tell him

    past Idaho guide
    present Illinois bowhunter

  351. Kendall Allred
    83 mos, 3 wks ago

    how do these guys deserve any respect they didn’t scout out these elk for weeks months or any amount of time they didn’t work like a real hunter they just paid some cash to some farmer walked onto some fenced in zoo and already knew what they were looking for mabey sighted the big bulls cornered them and shot WOW !! This is somthing that you can tell your friends about it’s pretty cool but the farmer who raised the two bulls deserves the real respect. I’m sure he could have just have easily shot the bulls when he was feeding them and mounted them in his house and been put on the top of the SCI record book.

  352. Kendall Allred
    83 mos, 3 wks ago

    when I first saw the two bulls and saw their scores I didn’t believe it and thought it was bull @%(*^ but I geuss if you were to breed the elk with intent to have this size of rack then I guess it is possible. Like the belgin bull (as in cow) moo they breed for muscle and show. The two bulls shown are the same. Would they have grown to this size in the wild NOT A CHANCE look at how long B&C has been around and nothing this big has ever been shot. these bulls were fed and pampered in a nice closed in area with no wolves or predators present. No disrespect to the hunters who shot these bulls or the ranchers who raised them good job guys! But these shouldn’t be in any record book besides guinuess book, were you can see the worlds fattest man and the largest horse.I’m sorry to the guys who shot these people must really give you a hard time but to each his own. Mabey next time you’ll keep the bulls away from any real record books but good luck with that. P.S. hope you had the meat made into lean ground beef otherwise I’ve never known a farm cow to be good eatin.

  353. lar
    83 mos ago

    HOW YOU ARE ABLE TO KEEP A BULL LIKE THIS
    FENCED IN?, IT MUST BE SOME KIND OF A FENCE.
    ELK SHOULD RUN FREE, NO PRIVATE LAND HUNTING.
    THESE ANAMALS ARE NOT ANY PERSONS PRIVATE PROPERTY.
    POINT OF FACT; IF THOSE ELK GET LOOSE THROUGH A HOLE IN THE FENCE, THEY ARE FAIR GAME TO ANY PUBLIC LAND HUNTER ARNT THEY?
    IF MY HERFORD BULL GETS OUT OF MY FENCE HE STILL BELONGS TO ME, RUSTLEING IS ELEAGLE.

  354. dan
    83 mos ago

    anyone in this blog would shoot that elk given the opportunity so i dont know why everyone is crying about how it was in a high fence. it wasn’t tied up. the guy had to hunt for three weeks to shoot one of the bulls. i gurantee he hunted harder for it than a lot of the people talking about how he isn’t a real hunter. also enough complaining about how hard it is to go hunt public land. if you put in the time, its very possible to shoot a real trophy. and lar, please learn how to spell.

  355. Buz
    82 mos, 4 wks ago

    As far as I’m concerned, anytime an animal is harvested within the confines of a fence, it should never be considered “Fair Chase”. It is a canned hunt pure and simple………What is really funny is reading some of the other responses trying to justify this type of hunting……..that is the key………..it’s not hunting it’s paying BIG Bucks to go shooting.

  356. Thomas
    82 mos, 3 wks ago

    Enough on this. Here’s the facts. It is not thousands of acres of land. He paid a boatload for the big bull. People do it every year. It is not hunting. It is shooting. Shot a fenced in bull. The bull was not going to get away. Where was he going to hide? In the timber of the fenced- in area. Go check the place out. I have. If that’s your cup of tea, so be it. But that is the cold hard truth. Anyone could have shot that bull- For all you people who think that is a tough hunt, please quit bullSh@##n yourselves…please!
    Enough about the Fenced-in World Record Canned hunt bull! To all the people that think this was such an accomplishment, you obviously only hunt like this, or not much, or you do these “kills” because you have more money than brains… I honestly can’t believe that this is the #1 blog….after more than a year…..Change the heading to “Farm Raised 502 Fenced In Bull is Killed” Bet it wouldn’t be the top blog….

  357. dan
    82 mos, 3 wks ago

    actually thomas i hunt public land every day of the season for elk. and i dont have more money than brains. and you must be bullsh@##n yourself if you are saying you wouldn’t shoot that elk.
    and it doesn’t take a lot of brains to wonder why this is still the number one blog…it is a 502 inch elk…..same reason the 575 bull is still a top blogger. and are you saying this area is a big field? the elk had plenty of cover to hide in. i know what area it is and it would be no piece of cake to just walk in and shoot that elk…..with a bow none the less. it isn’t like this elk was a pet. stop fooling yourself

  358. Ray North
    82 mos, 2 wks ago

    Those 2 bulls are absolutely massive!!!!! You are soo lucky to be able to hunt elk period and let alone get 2 of the biggest bulls i ever saw a pic of! You should be proud of yourself.

  359. DON
    82 mos, 1 wk ago

    I have hunted elk in idaho for 26 years now. and have injoyed every minute of it.when i could walk. i am not in any way appossed to this kind of hunting if you can afford it. but we should all be thankfull that if we cant we have a place we can hunt. i am disabled now and havent hunted elk in 6 years. but if i could afford it give me the number. just to be able to hunt again.

  360. Reality
    82 mos, 1 wk ago

    that bull is very impressive. The trophies that come off of high fenced-in areas and those that come off of those game farms should not eligible for any of the books. There is nothing better here in Missouri to see the small town papers that show folks who lucky on friends farms and ended up hammering a Monster or maybe even they have seen it off and on for a few years and finally took it. Id have more admiration for a buck and the taker that takes a big ‘un on some old run down farm than a ‘pay for a trophy’ any day

  361. 82 mos, 1 wk ago

    Although a high fenced trophy, I suspect that hunt was grulling, their still elk and big nasty Idaho canyons. I can imagine the bugle that bull made will not be soon forgottin and caused that hunter to run up and down many a steep mountain. Just about any elk hunt is a far cry from setting in a tree stand with a book, Or one of those Blinds ( mini House) and your walker game ear, your cough arester, and Lunch, with big numbers of white tails all over, Reality is Idaho Elk will never be Food Plots and Tree stands. United WE Stand

  362. COHunter
    82 mos ago

    Impressive pics, very impressive. Would I do it if I had the money? I’m fortunate to never have to find out. Part of “hunting” for me is the anticipation of the hunt and the wondering, will I see something, will I get a shot off. With that being said. I think these are great bulls, and as long as someone isn’t bragging about the skill it took to bring it down in a high-fenced area, no harm no foul.

  363. Justin
    81 mos, 2 wks ago

    The best thing about these types of “hunters”? It keeps them away from the public land hunts where the real hunters are!

  364. Ridgerunner
    81 mos, 2 wks ago

    The scrawniest spike taken in fair chase on Idaho’s public lands is a greater trophy than these phonies.The sad thing is so many so-called ‘sportsmen’ fail to shooting pens as the poison they are for honest, fair chase hunting. And so many think “if it’s legal, it must be OK.” What ever happened to policing our own ranks? And these shooters blame the internet and say “gee, I never said it was a real elk hunt.” Kinda like printing counterfeit money and and saying “gee, I never said I actually earned it.” Counterfeit trophies, is what these are.

  365. Casey
    81 mos, 2 wks ago

    I guess I stumbled upon this argument and I had to chime in. The reason that Montana has made fenced “hunts” illegal is because they are not considered ethical hunting, I agree with Montana. However, outfitting in Montana is pretty much the same as “high fence hunting” because outfitters, are generally out of state pukes with no idea of the area, the animal, or hunting in general, they will often drag someone around the hills for about a week, never seeing an elk, then pull a big bull in with a horse trailer, kick it out and “hunt” it. I have seen this practice twice. I dont believe that these “hunts” should go in record books either, but they do because of the area that the animal was killed. I have been a hunter since I was 12, before that I dragged around the forest every year learning about the animal that my father was hunting so that when it was my time, I could track, stalk and harvest my own animal. I have earned the right to hunt, but it is almost impossible to do now because all of the private land is “outfitted”. Landowners make alot of money doing this, so I cannot be upset at them. When I go to public land and am surrounded by California and Washington plated vehicles I am equally upset because these people will ruin a good hunting season in a heartbeat. Earlier this year, a moron from San Deigo shot my pickup because he thought it was an elk. How do you mistake a truck for an elk? So, even though I hate the idea of high fences, people who dont know how to hunt need them, and hiring “outfitters” is often just as unethical and ignorant as the high fence ranches in my book. If you dont know what you are doing, dont hunt, or come drag around the mountains with me and my son for about four years so that you can earn the right to hunt a beautiful and cunning animal like a bull elk.

  366. jacob
    81 mos, 2 wks ago

    Ridgerunner, I dont think you have a clue on what or how they do things on hunting ranches!!! Most of you people that are against these hunting ranches just figure you go out in the pasture and shoot the elk. I’ll tell you guys right now that its alot more complicated than that. My father in-law runs an elk hunting ranch and i’ve helped him for five years and there are days when you dont even see an elk. I dont undestand why so many of you so called hunters are so against these hunting ranches. These bulls that they shoot dont go in any record books besides the SCI record book. It keeps alot of these people that dont really know a whole lot about hunting off of public land and out of your way. In some ways were doing you guys a favor!! Oh (Ridgrunner) i know for a fact, if you had the chance to shoot a 460 bull on a hunting ranch i would garuntee you would do it!!! Dont kid yourself!!!

  367. Dustin
    80 mos, 3 wks ago

    The mike shipsey bull was not high fence, this makes it the true record to me. This bull is great, however not free rangeing. There are probably more elk of shipsey’s calliber out there. I know I shed hunt a mere 15 miles from where this bull was taken. 400+ sheds are common among the handfull of people who brave the terrain and rattlesnakes. The area simply produces massive bulls! Any elk farm can produce 500 bulls. but only special wild places produce 400-500 bulls!

  368. jake
    80 mos, 3 wks ago

    I HAVE HUNTED ELK FOR 31 YEARS ON PUBLICK LANDS,NEVER HAVE I SEEN A BULL HALF THIS SIZE.I DONT LIKE THE IDEA OF FARMERS KEEPING STATE GAME LOCKED UP SO THEY CAN MAKE BIG MONEY FROM IT.ALL GAME SHOULD ROAM FREE. TO THE FARMER WHO SAID HE WAS TRYING TO GET HIS MONEY BACK FROM ELK DISTRUCTION,I SAY KEEP YOUR CATTLE FENCED AND FEED THEM. OPEN RANGE FEEDING TAKES FOOD FROM ELK,THEY MUST FEED SOME WHERE WHY NOT ON YOUR FARM, AFTERALL YOUR HERDS EAT THE ELKS GRASS IN THE WOODS. AND THE ELK WERE HERE BEFORE US.

  369. 80 mos, 2 wks ago

    Sorry did not finish. The hunt was on a high fence ranch, about 3000 acres ?
    I cross 5000 to 10,000 acre ranches in the dark on my way to hunt public land bulls. You people act like those are large places, that is not a sanctuary for elk.
    What I have issue with is Kevins personal comment,#6, second line, “I do consider taking of these bulls “fair chase ” ”
    NO WAY, That is where he is wrong, And not recognized by P&Y or B&C.
    Comment#324 covers issues very well.
    I have hunted Montana my whole life for elk,with bow and rifle for 33 years. Covering alot of the state ,ID,AK, and wilderness area DYI. Thousands of acres traveled on foot, this year I put in 44 days of hunting dark too dark. I did not see a bull until the last afternoon of season. Lucy enough to be my 13th. 6×6 in a row,”Fair Chase” period. Those high fence ranch elk hunts , DO NOT COMPARE.

  370. JARED
    80 mos ago

    People
    this happened years ago. give it a rest . a high fenced hunt is just another way for rich people to feel important. they hang the head on their wall and when someone comments about it they tell some lie about how great the hunt was. the more we talk about it the more important they feel. we are just feeding their egos. to me Kevin just went down to the local rancher and told him which cow he wanted to put in his freezer. maybe we should start hanging herford heads on the wall too.

  371. Mike Petras
    79 mos, 2 wks ago

    After Reading some of the comments on this “BULL”, I think that there is no way that this bull was taking in a fair chase situation, he is just to big to believe that he could have made it this long without being shot,, but other wise he is a MONSTER bull even if he was a $BIG$ bank breaker,, and I agree 100% that we are just making them feel “importent” be commnting on there elk,,,,,,,,,, and even if they say it was “and Amazing and Difficult” I think they are just trying for it to seem like they did something,,, when really they just got out of the truck walk around untill they looked over all the elk and found the one they wanted,, then asking the “guide” “HOW MUCH FOR THAT ONE” then getting in range to take the shot…. I think that high fence hunts are kinda dumb for elk and whitetaile,, but for exotics like a corsican ram, or a black buck Antilope, is a diffrent story,,, all in all it is not hunting when the animals are in a fence and have there meals taking to them on a silver platter,,,, I could go on and on about HIGH FENCE hunts but I will stop.. I think comment #358 cleans it up in a few sentences. :) :(

  372. sam
    79 mos, 2 wks ago

    After reading a few of the comments above, Im going to add my 2 bits. Im an avid hunter myself and enjoy fair chase hunts as much as the next guy. I think that if these guys- joe millionaire- want to pay $25k to go kill an elk in a high fenced area I want to be the one they are paying. They will find someone somewhere to sell them that opportunity. May as well be me they are paying the big bucks. I grew up on a cattle ranch and I see high fenced elk as a business. Sure its like going and shooting the bull out of the cattle herd but if someone will pay big bucks to shoot my bull, most things are for sale for the right price. Besides it keeps morons off of public land and thus less hunting pressure on my favorite spot. Sure dont want some idiot shooting my truck or the horse out from under me mistaking it for an elk.