King’s Outdoor World Blog

75 Comments Add your own

• 1. Buddy Bass  |  November 3rd, 2005 at 1:34 pm

  WOW! What a Bull. Has anyone made an effort to contact the family to get their side of the Boone & Crockett story?

• 2. AZThunder  |  November 9th, 2005 at 12:38 am

  From all the stories I’ve researched, the Shipsey Bull was allegedly taken while using an electronic call. I can’t confirm or deny this, but it’s been said this is what kept B&C from accepting the animal. Other rumors circulating on this bull was that it was given steroids from birth. That rumor has been squashed, and the San Carlos Game & Fish folks catagorically deny they “juice” their elk. At this point, who really cares if the elk makes the book. Shipsey doesn’t seem to care, and why should he? It’s hanging in his den, and he’s made bank on selling the replicas.

• 3. Unknown  |  December 7th, 2005 at 9:24 pm

  Perhaps why Mr Shipsey’s Bull was not lised is that Mr Shipsey has in the past, several violations of Game Laws, both in the US and Canada.

• 4. Joe Mladenik  |  December 23rd, 2005 at 4:16 pm

  ANY way you look at it this is a huge bull, and as long as it wasn’t poached, WHO CARES. Mr. Shipsey and everyone else knows it is a record bull, even if it’s not accepted in the books. That is THEIR loss not his.

• 5. jesse  |  December 28th, 2005 at 7:59 pm

  that is the biggest elk i have ever seen

• 6. Dan  |  January 11th, 2006 at 9:13 pm

  I have also heard the steroids rumor. I heard that this was a “breeder” bull that was given steroids to obviously produce massive antler growth, but more importantly to pass those mutated DNA genes on to other elk. The bull was not supposed to be shot and then it was tested, like MLB, it tested positive. Therefore it is not allowed in B&C. Just my 2 cents….

• 7. Joshua Lord  |  January 12th, 2006 at 2:40 pm

  A nice bull but it probably wasn’t taken under a fair chase. I shot a nice 7×7 bull elk with my bow this year that scored 392 net. And mine looks just as big as this one without all the extra points.

• 8. Apache Guide  |  February 17th, 2006 at 8:46 pm

  There are serious misconceptions about elk coming from Indian Reservations. The San Carlos reservation is almost 2 million acres in size and there are no high fences. The conservative harvest allows the elk to reach maturity and their peak potential. These reservations were established for the use and benefit of the Apache people through early treaties with the United States Government. The Apaches understand the potential for income through marketing its trophy hunting. By its conservative harvest, sound management and marketing, the Tribe is able to charge a premium for the opportunity to hunt these genetically blessed animals. It has every right to do so through its self-regulating authority. Trophy hunting programs generate income that can be used to further benefit wildlife habitat on the reservation and/or help to pay for Tribal social programs (similar to special permits offered by states). Tribal Members also have the opportunity to hunt these animals and not all permits are offered to wealthy sportsman. As a Tribal Member and Guide, I know one thing is certain… it takes a lot of effort (as well as luck) to take a 400-incher, even on the reservation. There are no guarantees. It is absolutely, positively, FAIR CHASE. The comments about steriods is false (but thanks for the good laugh). The allegations about Mr. Shipsey’s background is probably closer to the truth about this matter, but not everyone is perfect. The B&C records committee has its criteria and unfortunately the 500+ bull will probably never be recognized.

  Good Hunting!

• 9. ozzy  |  March 1st, 2006 at 11:57 am

  is there really elk in the state of arizona and were . many times i’ve been there and was told by many hunters elk does not exist in arizona only further towards the north eatern states

• 10. Frankie  |  March 18th, 2006 at 10:12 pm

  You were not talking to a real hunter if they told you that #9. Nice bull!

• 11. cheeks  |  March 19th, 2006 at 8:25 am

  #10 and #9 there is elk in arizona!! the nm and arizona border… there are huge elk there, call united states outfitters in new mexico.

• 12. cheeks  |  March 19th, 2006 at 8:31 am

  sorry #10 miss read your comment and agree with you!!!

• 13. Shawn Kenton  |  March 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pm

  I lived on the San Carlos reservation most of my life.And hunted with my dad,for these monster bulls. If you haven’t hunt S.C . your missing out.We hunted in 2004 and we seen so many 400 class bulls,it was unbelievable.Now I live on the Whitemountain Apache reservation with my wife and we took some respectable bulls.But in my opinion nothing will beat S.C . The reason they have monster bulls is because they know how to manage their elk!!!!!!! What is the B.S about them useing steriods on the elk!!!! We apaches respect everything we hunt!!!!! We don’t just hunt for the antlers!!!!!

• 14. Dale R. Walker  |  March 24th, 2006 at 7:44 pm

  Hay, if I ever got a chance to get a bull like this one, I wouldn’t much care how he got huge antlers, I’d just be a proud hunter and would be braging the rest of my life.

• 15. jeremiah  |  April 2nd, 2006 at 11:26 pm

  man that bull is huge.

• 16. Dacoda Stapley  |  April 12th, 2006 at 11:10 am

  I shot many bulls like that im just to lazy to take them to get scored!!!!!

• 17. az native  |  April 13th, 2006 at 2:58 pm

  I dont want to repeat the story I heard about this bull elk however,what an awesome trophy not surpased by any other rocky I,m aware of. I and a million other folks go out in persuit of elk antler each spring and I can assure you all, AZ is the home of the giants. Even as a resident its extremely hard to draw tags. I also know that some of the greatest bulls never make the main stream scene because some theif stills them from the law abiding citizens. I have a couple of two hundred inch antlkers and dont want the attention so I keep them to myself.

• 18. critter  |  April 18th, 2006 at 6:25 pm

  there is a replica of this bull in the sportsmans wherehouse in phoenix arizona. just west of interstate 17 on yorkshire road. it is definetly a bruiser….

• 19. az native  |  April 19th, 2006 at 10:35 am

  #18 When I went there to see the replica I was disapointed in the size. The picture with the indians the bull looked much larger in my opinion. WE do all have opinions. My favorite part of the bull was the brows!

• 20. Mark Cook  |  April 27th, 2006 at 12:51 pm

  The Apache Guide comments were well written and seemed very honest. Thans for your input. I am not here to convey all the answers, but if the bull was taken with an electronic call then it probably should not make the BC or Pope and YOung book. But it doesn’t diminsh the size of the animial’s horns just the method of take some.

  But I will say the comments about United States Outfitters USO has done more to diminish hunting and is just a greedy organization out to make money at all costs with no regard for the heritage for hunting. There lawsuit against Arizona was out of pure greed and anyone who hunts with them diminishes the sport unknowly or not. The majority of the guide industry has a huge agenda to promote their business with little regard most of the time for those who don’t use their services and USO is probably king for the day when it comes to do this. But there are a small minority that are not like this and I salute them. I have hunt in Alaska and the Northwest extensively and most guides think they own the public land you hunt on or they have bought the souls of the landowers that do and they treat most hunters with disrespect when they find you in the same area. I think the day has come where a vast majority of Pubilc Land should be designated nonguided hunting only and illegally to charge trespass fees. Then maybe hunting will start to be cleaned up some on not become a rich man’s sport where you can’t afford to your kid hunting because it just costs to much to do so in areas of very little public land that is available.

  I have friends that are guides but they know as well as most everyone else that they don’t own the animals and they don’t own the Public lands for now. So why is they get alotted tags in controlled hunts over the average hunter? The Fish and Game is not their to support their industry but the are started to ressemble them more and more. I had just started here to to thank the Apache Guide for his honesty in his comments. So I think I better end it hear. I’m sure I made no friends with some guides here and that is good because they are probably the guilty ones that do not promote the heritage of hunting and could careless for it. My concern is for our grandchildren and what experience they will have due to the agenda of the greedy.

• 21. Mark Cook  |  April 27th, 2006 at 3:34 pm

  Next time I will run this through spell check, my goodness I get lazy sometimes. LOL

• 22. az native  |  May 1st, 2006 at 1:09 pm

  Mark Cook I am in agreement with you. Greed, recognition, prestige, approval of others, are motivating forces behind many of the guide services. I have heard others comment on how they were treated unfavorably by guides on public land. Fortunately there are still many great folks hunting on public land that would give the shirt off their backs to help another.

• 23. JR.  |  May 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pm

  I like the bulls on the page

• 24. Manuel Pando TX  |  July 10th, 2006 at 9:36 pm

  Listen guys who cares about all this insignificant bull crap
  lets go hunting.

• 25. Ron Dodson  |  July 11th, 2006 at 12:06 am

  First Texas now idaho and even Arizona. Such big bulls. I’m hanging out in the wrong places.I,ve seen the Idaho ranch on T.V. They specialize in a lot of older disabled guys. I never dreamed they had animals that big.The fact that Band C are ethics police is part of their job. But it dosn”t deminish the quality of the beast.Also thats why SCI, exists to reconise theese great animals.

• 26. Dennis Tillman  |  August 9th, 2006 at 1:22 pm

  I live on the wind river reservation and thats a bull I have been looking for myself. I have been through the apache reservation at night in the fall time and I have seen some huge bulls that no doubt in my mind are the biggest bulls I have ever seen. With the bull crap I have heard about steroids being used sounds like there are some green horn hunters outthere that cannot get passed the idea that they do not no how to hunt these huge bulls.

• 27. Alberta-wes  |  August 29th, 2006 at 1:12 pm

  Im quite surprised at all the talk of steroids and quote-quote Juicing. Are you guys smoking drugs, or just talking to hear your own voices. As far as this and others I might add, being poached, bla bla bla, mabey you guys need to be constructive, and get set up behind a pair of glasses, doing some preseason scouting. Dont be so quick to judge.

• 28. 1UofACat  |  September 7th, 2006 at 1:41 pm

  As John Doyle once told me, “Scoring an animal is more about respecting the animal than the hunter.” It’s unfortunate that a less-than stellar individual is the one who collected such an elk. Although John has been gone close to 20 years now, his memories and philosophies are alive and well.

  This is a truly magnificant animal. As mentioned above, I have seen the elk in Sportsman Warehouse, and although it’s a replica, I stood there for several minutes just looking at it. The brow tines are what caught my eye at first.

  I feel truly fortunate in having finally drawn a bull tag in Arizona. My last bull tag 12 years ago resulted in a P&Y bull, and this year I hope to repeat that effort at a minimum.

  BTW, I have a tag in 5BN, not perhaps the premier location for world record animals, but a very high concentration of bulls to cows. The last time I checked, there were more bulls than cows in this unit. Personally, I can’t wait.

  Awesome bull regardless of the methods or individual who collected it.

• 29. ASU cat hunter  |  September 18th, 2006 at 1:53 pm

  I’m not suggesting the bull was juiced but there would be a lot of incentive for the Rez to do such a thing. They charge upwards of 10K-30K for a non-tribal member to hunt a bull like that. Unless you have something exceptional people arent going to want to pay that huge price.

  I also have a 5BN tag. Archery bull starts next friday I cant wait.

• 30. Apache Guide  |  September 19th, 2006 at 7:27 pm

  AS-Who? What a moron.

  You ARE suggesting inappropriate and/or unethical conduct by the San Carlos Apaches.

  The price is reasonable and the Apache Tribe provides the best value for the money. I know outfitters that charge 7-10K for a five day hunt on public land. Plus you have to draw the tag first.

  Come visit the “Rez” and see how vast the land really is. If there is a way to “juice” wild elk please explain how it would be done. Also explain why there aren’t 500-inch bulls produced annually.

  Get a clue Sun Devil.

• 31. ASU cat hunter  |  September 20th, 2006 at 9:41 am

  Maybe you missed the first part of my post. Maybe if you went to college you’d know how to read.
  “I’m not suggesting the bull was juiced but there would be a lot of incentive for the Rez to do such a thing”

  I’m just suggesting that there would be incentive to so such a thing. I dont think that 30K in trophy fees is reasonable. I will concede that the Apache land is great and that there is ample prime elk habitat that could produce such a bull. Could just be selective breeding who knows. The trout in the Rez lakes are bigger because they put bigger ones in. Perhaps theres a correlation. E i E i O

  So how about you get a clue. Or maybe get hooked on phonics.

• 32. Apache Guide  |  September 20th, 2006 at 2:06 pm

  Okay. It sounds like you have an answer for everything.

  Let me explain who I am. I am Apache and I have two degrees in renewable natural resources (wildlife biology) from U of A. So it bugs the heck out of me when people imply that the Tribe gives its elk steroids.

  I recently purchased the book, “the Greatest Elk” and overheard the author explaining to someone else buying the book in front of me that he had also heard the rumor that the Shipsey bull was given steroids. I politely asked him to explain how this would be done after he signed my copy. He responded with, “I don’t know… but that is the rumor”.

  Yes. Bigger fish are stocked so anglers can have a better time (and hopefully return again and again). However you are comparing apples and oranges.

  I agree there would be a huge incentive. But given the size of the reservation, the uncertainty of the results, and the costs associated make the idea of steroids just plain laughable.

  You’re not suggesting directly, but you’re suggesting it in an indirect way. Therefore I just had to respond to your post.

  Please explain your academic background Mr. smart ass?

• 33. ASU  |  September 20th, 2006 at 3:35 pm

  I admit to being a smart ass. You gave a good reasonable answer so I will return the favor. I am a conservation biology senior at ASU. We probably have rather similar interests, other than choice of school ofcourse.

  I have fished the Rez and they have a nice program. I find the idea of steroids being given to a wild herd absurd also, hence my E I E I O and reference to the huge trout. Whether it was Shipleys past or maybe it was a farm bull who knows who cares. I absolutely don’t doubt that the potential for growing such a beast is there. Both the San Carlos and White Mountain lands are exceptionally fertile fabulous lands.

  I apologize if I offended you with my smart-assery, as I can now tell that you are a rather articulate fellow. I hope the hunting season is good to you. I am off to arrow a good bull, maybe I’ll post a report sometime next week.

• 34. Archy  |  September 21st, 2006 at 10:56 am

  There does seem to be quite a bit of speculation about why the bull didn’t make the books. Did anyone figure that maybe Mike Shipsey killed this bull in a “fair” chase and for whatever personal reasons didn’t allow them to place it in the book. Just a thought. All I am saying is, just because an animal doesn’t make the book doesn’t always mean that there is fowl play.

• 35. No '06 AZ Elk Tag  |  September 21st, 2006 at 8:50 pm

  Not to change the topic, but I was informed of a guy recently shot a 505 bull in Canada. I have not seen the pictures yet, but a couple friends of mine says its huge. It is supposed to be so massive that you can not put both hands around the base of it’s antlers. The person that is mounting it actually had him take it back until he is ready to mount it, due to traffic in his store. If I can get me hands on a picture I will send it on.

• 36. jim  |  September 22nd, 2006 at 9:46 am

  I’m from Canada and have not heard of a bull that size getting shot up here yet…was it a wild bull or a high fence bull from saskatchewan????

• 37. No '06 AZ Elk Tag  |  September 26th, 2006 at 4:57 pm

  I heard it was shot in saskatchewan and I know the guy that shot it (although I have not spoke with him at this point) and I would doubt that it was a high fenced bull. He is a guide in AZ and has done very well guding over the past decade or so. I think that it was a muzzleloader hunt if that helps.

• 38. LOVE OF THE GAME  |  September 27th, 2006 at 8:52 pm

  YOU KNOW YOU DONT HAVE TO GO TO NEW MEXICO OR SOMEWHERE THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO GET A NICE BULL ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO TO COLORADO. IN COLORADO THE TROPHY UNITS TEN AND TWO ARE SOME OF THE GREATEST ELK AREAS TO HUNT IN THE WORLD. I HAVE LIVED WITH IN 30 MILES OF BOTH OF THESE AREAS FOR MY ENTRIE LIFE AND YET I HAVE NEVER HUNTED THEM. THE REASON BEEING THAT I NEVER HUNTED THEM IS MAINLY CAUS IT CAN TAKE 18 TO TWENTY YEARS JUST IN ORDER TO BE LOOKED AT FOR THE CHANCE TO HUNT THERE. BUT THE AREA ALL AROUND THOSE TROPHY UNITS IS PUBLIC PROPERTY. THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF COLORADO IS KNOWN TO HAVE THE MOST PUBLIC AND BLM LAND AVAILABLE TO HUNTERS IN THIS COUNTRY.AND THE BEST PART IS THAT YOU CAN BUY AN OVER THE COUNTER BULL ELK TAG. FOR RESIDENTS IT IS ONLY 50 DOLLARS AND NONE RESIDENTS IT IS BETWEEN 300 TO FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS. BUT THAT PUBLIC LAND IS GOT HUGE HUGE HUGE BULLS. THE BEST PART IS THE 3RD SEASON RIFLE. THIS IS WHERE THE BULLS WINTER. THE BULLS COME FROM THE ALL SO FAMOUS AREAS AS YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK. AND THE BEST PART IS YOU CAN GET A TROPHY THAT IS RECORD BOOK READY AND THERE HAVE NOT BEEN SET IN A FENCED AREA THERE JUST THERE

• 39. Taylor  |  September 28th, 2006 at 12:12 pm

  yeah if that bull scores 502 then frogs have wings!!!!

• 40. justin  |  September 28th, 2006 at 12:20 pm

  yea i agree with taylor my great grandfather shot a bull elk when he was 21 and it is much larger than that one in mass and width it is now sitting on my uncles wall if any one wants to argue the size of my great grandfathers elk please email me at justp092009@yahoo.com and i will email you some pictures back

• 41. pissed off  |  September 28th, 2006 at 12:31 pm

  some people just think that everything they have is bigger and better than anyone elses dude im emailin you the pics rigth now

• 42. Taylor  |  September 29th, 2006 at 11:10 am

  hey #41 i’d like to see those pics to if you don’t mind

• 43. gabe  |  October 4th, 2006 at 3:14 pm

  you all just dont know the elk that are in my state AZ are all real i have seen them for my self if you look at the photos on the king web you will see my cousin with his 442′’ bull elk that was killed on the san carlos apache reservation now if you that is a monster

• 44. ADAM L.  |  October 5th, 2006 at 2:38 pm

  IF YOU THINK THIS AZ BULL IS BIG JUST TAKE A LOOK AT OUR SELLWAY IDAHO BULL TAKEN BY A BOW THIS YEAR, 575 SCORE….. THAT IS 70 INCHES OR POINTS BIGGER. BUT THIS IS A HUGE BULL HERE NO DOUBT…

• 45. AZNAVYVET  |  October 5th, 2006 at 4:43 pm

  I question how someone could consider themselves an elk hunter, yet scratch their head when AZ is mentioned as a premier location. Take a look through the books. Year in year out, northern Az is a continuous producer of top flight bulls. And FYI, the steroids allegation is preposterous. If you want to make asinine allegations, why not go all the way and just say that it was a steroid injected, grain fed bull who was killed in a high fence environment? If you want to be dumb, you may as well be really dumb. It’s a great bull, and I’m sure it’s not the only one of it’s caliber that you’ll see coming out of AZ. Just my two cents.

• 46. No '06 AZ Elk Tag  |  October 6th, 2006 at 10:13 pm

  I agree with you #45. There was a mag about 2 months ago that showed all counties producing B&C bulls. It stated that while NV, UT, NM, all had B&C quality bulls, AZ constantly lead them with the most B&C bulls killed. Colorado may have some big bulls in the limited draw hunts, but nothing like AZ.

  If you have any doubt about the AZ bulls, go purchase Awesome Archery Bulls 2 (I think). The shot bulls ranging from 350 to 414 (new pending record), all in AZ all in 2005.

• 47. love of the game  |  October 10th, 2006 at 2:42 pm

  yes arizona does have some very large elk wait very very very large elk but colorado you can go basically any where in the state and find a heard of elk. also where i am from in colorado we are known to have the worlds largest elk heard.its known as either the white river heard or moffat county heard. there is somewhere between 50 to 65 thousand head of elk in this heard. when these elk move off the mountains the road between craig colotrado and bags wyoming can be shut down for hours while they cross highway 13.

• 48. Luv24x4  |  October 10th, 2006 at 9:08 pm

  I want proof of the Sellway Bull Adam L? I saw a photo of it but it looks doctored to me. Is there any other photos or a post of the whole hunting story? Somthing, anyhting?

• 49. AZNAVYVET  |  October 11th, 2006 at 2:19 pm

  Luv24×4, there is an interesting read on the ‘Selway bull’ on this same website. It’s pretty much been debunked as a game farm animal that wasn’t killed anywhere near Selway-Bitterroot. Some interesting comments being posted on it :

  http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2006/10/03/the-biggest-elk-575-archery-bull/

• 50. TRW  |  October 11th, 2006 at 3:54 pm

  Selway bull was killed in canada under lock and key.

• 51. Mitch  |  October 17th, 2006 at 11:17 pm

  I’ve heard that the reason the bulls in AZ and NM are so dang huge are because they are all decended from the Merriam’s elk that are now extinct but were known to have the largest antlers of the 6 subspecies of elk. Does anybody know about this or is this just some cock ‘n’ bull story?

• 52. robert roberts  |  October 18th, 2006 at 11:46 am

  no matter how you look at it KOODO’S to the San Carlos Reservation on their management of world class animals at least some people are doing it right and not at the cost of wild heards

• 53. Apache Guide  |  October 22nd, 2006 at 8:21 pm

  Jim Heffelfinger, conducted a genetics study comparing today’s AZ elk, which were reintroduced around 1913 from a Yellowstone herd. It has been a long time since I read his findings, however if I remember correctly, the result was that all samples were closely related to Yellowstone elk. The few samples of Merriam’s elk were genetically different. Mr. Heffelfinger is now a biologist for the Arizona Game and Fish Department. I suggest contacting him for more information about his study.

• 54. Steve  |  October 23rd, 2006 at 1:29 pm

  nah

• 55. John  |  October 27th, 2006 at 10:54 am

  Apache Guide or anyone else. Could you please explain something to me… The bull was taken by Mike Shipsey………and is currently owned by Shirley Hayward. How is this?

  Thanks

• 56. Apache Guide  |  October 28th, 2006 at 1:40 pm

  John,

  I don’t know.

• 57. adam simms  |  December 5th, 2006 at 4:10 pm

  Jeez! Everyone need to put on the d*** brakes!!! Of course AZ produces some of the largest antlered free range elk in the world, along with SW New Mexico. Take away the geographical border of the state line, and you will realize that this is all part of the same ecoregion. Why are these bulls so big? Obviously, there are many opinions–these are mine…The area as a whole is comprised mostly of vast wilderness areas (such as the Gila with 500,000+ acres), extemely large Indian Reservations (i.e. San Carlos Apache 2 million+ acres), and extensive private lands. Add to that the very conservative harvest management programs practiced by both the AZ and NM Departments of Game and Fish, and already you can expect to find better-than-averge antler size on the bulls there. Another point to consider is that the region experiences much milder winter conditions than the more northerly areas of the country, or those found at higher elevations, where the bulk of the contintinent’s elk are living. The less energy spent on staying alive through harsh winters normally means more resouce for bulls to put into antler growth, and cows producing larger and healthier calves (which, due to the unlikely event of very late-spring snowstorms, are more apt to survive their crucial first year). Also for consideration is the fact that this area represents the ancestral range of the Merriam’s subspecies of Cervus Elephus, reported to have been the largest-antlered of all the elk ecotypes, it can be speculated that the Merriam’s is not extinct at all (considering the vast and sometimes inaccessable region it called home, as well as the limited capacity for censusing populations at the time it was declared gone from the planet), but is alive and well (albeit in an an interbred form, as transplants from Jellystone did take place), and expressing itself through the magnificient form of such bulls as the San Carlos 502 bull. It is sheer ignorance to suggest this bull was “enhanced” by artificial means. As for the method of take, or the hunters pedigree, I cannot say.
  Hope this helps guys and gals. Keep hunting real, do your homework, and do your fieldwork!!!

• 58. gregory bafford  |  December 24th, 2006 at 8:26 am

  I have seen mikes record bull elk many times…any questions just ask and i will answer

• 59. Scott  |  January 22nd, 2007 at 7:10 pm

  I’ve had a copy of that photo for quite a while, as it was circulating through email quite a bit, sans the story.
  I’m glad to know soemthing about the story now. Are they are other known photos of it?

• 60. martin  |  January 29th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

  this huge bull was taken in my home san carlos apache resevation

• 61. cboni  |  February 19th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

  overall this bull is thee biggest freeroaming elk takin, and it not being in the record book doesnt even matter the rack speeks for it self, more and more 400 class bulls taken by hunters now dont even care to enter their anmal as well some due to dissagreement of deductions and others dont know what they have(tribal members on the rez 5 that i know)i being a guide and hunter on the san carlos,ive seen alot of monsters 400 class dead and alive, so the B&C method most hunters use but hey we like our score as our money we want the gross right,and i know the san carlos will provide a opertunity to take a world record like shipseys bull

• 62. Apachescaler1  |  February 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pm

  Lot of good comments here from all sides. As for the Shipsey bull, I was there perhaps the next day after it was harvested and Mike Shipsey allowed me to take photos of the big rack. Perhaps you have seen those photos of the rack in front of a red jeep cherokee, that was my jeep. Later on another Dry Lake unit hunt with another guide, I had watched video of that Shipsey bull and where it was taken. That bull, from what I know of the Apache guide who was there who is also a friend of mine, was taken legally without question. I myself have been a guide on the San Carlos for well over 20 years and have done more hunts than most guides on the San Carlos. I have good relations with them all and respect them. Spending at least 200 days or more out of every year on the San Carlos reservation will teach you alot. And being an Apache who practices our culture and traditions as I do says that we respect our land and animals like no other. It is vast and open and mostly uninhabited space except for roads and a few cattle ranches. The quality of the game available here is excellent. For me, i run my business in the Apache traditions and ways. Respect comes first above all else..Respect for the animals, for the guides, and very importantly for the hunters themselves. Whether or not this bull is entered into any kind of record book shouldn’t matter since its a club formed by hunters wishing to be recognized for their trophies. Which is ok but what about all the other hunters who harvest a smaller animal but are just as proud or even more proud to have such a trophy? I make sure our clients are happy with their hunts first. So this is a bull taken legally and for those of you who still believe that we on the San Carlos use steroids to produce huge elk need to come and visit who we are as a people. But very good comemnts indeed from everyone. I will check back at a later date to see if any more comments are made on this bull.

• 63. Darren Kramer  |  March 23rd, 2007 at 9:35 am

  Let me start by saying what a great bull ! (Adam simms) I like what you had to say. I feel that the possiblity of an extinct animal flying in under the radar is very possible, look at how often you bump into Mountain lions, Bobcats & Bears. You see them but not very often. (Apachescal1) You hit it on the head not every animal or situation meets the B&C requirements, however that doesn’t mean its not a Great trophy. My hats off to Mr. Shipsey I hope to someday have a chance at a bull like that one. THANKS

• 64. Scott Mac  |  March 26th, 2007 at 10:29 am

  I have personally hunted on public land in Arizona, less than 15 miles from where the Shipsey Bull was taken. I have seen with my own eyes a 400 plus bull that was part of a satellite herd known to originate from the Dry Lake Herd. I couldn’t get him that year, but my hats off to the S.C.Apache tribe, they have an awsome program.

• 65. Ms. Hayward  |  May 20th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

  My, My, you guys are just having way tooo much fun!!! Yes I was there, at SC. That was my first visit, wonderful place, so many wild creatures. The bull was taken very early in the morning, fairly, with the guide, and a very talented and experienced hunter. I will leave it at that, you guys enjoy the mystery and stories. Happy Hunting to all of you desperate house husbands! HAHA

• 66. robbie mac  |  July 23rd, 2007 at 11:55 pm

  props to mr shipsey for taking the bull and props to the S.C. indians for their program they have going and happy hunting

• 67. gregory bafford  |  July 31st, 2007 at 9:46 pm

  There isnt much mystery in why the Mike Shipsey bull elk isnt recognized if you run a google search on Mike Shipsey, and have the time to read all the pages of documents. I like the one about the tropy ram and how it was taken.

• 68. Hoss  |  October 10th, 2007 at 4:35 pm

  The San Carlos Apache Reservation is thee prime area to harvest 400 to 500 class bulls. I am blessed to be a tribal member to be able to hunt these awesome bulls by luck of a draw. I myself have harvested a 400 plus bull, and have seen much bigger 430+ bulls. All the people on the Rez respect the land and the rumor of steriods or high fence fields is pratically an insult. All people have to do is visit the San Carlos Apache Rez and see for themselves. We have 1.8 million acres of land to find monster bulls, and the elk are not pressured so hard due to good management. That is all. There will be more and more 400+ bulls taken from the Rez for years to come.

• 69. bruce  |  November 8th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

  i have a replica of the shipsey elk sitting in my living room and i want everyone to know it is real. the rez is a great place to hunt for big elk. and any people who say they shoot bigger ones all the time and are too lazy to show it, shipsey deserves the credit because he wasn’t too lazy to show his pictures and they can show us and prove it.

• 70. Jamie  |  November 13th, 2007 at 10:56 pm

  John FYI–ownership of the elk may have something to do with lawsuits and such. Excert from a court case:

  b. Defendant Shipsey relied on his confidential relationship with his said significant other, Defendant Hayward, to entrust all his interest, including inter alia, all the shares of Defendant Tri-Star to Defendant Hayward in order for Defendant Shipsey to enjoy the benefits of the corporate form while shielding assets from creditors, including Plaintiff…

  www.assetprotectionbook.com/graybehl-cordula.htm

• 71. Gilbert  |  December 22nd, 2007 at 5:27 am

  We have monster elk here in Arizona. The Whitemountains is home of some of them. I have seen big elk come right across
  reservation line into my hunt unit. That is fair chase. None of
  that fencing in and baiting like you see in those joke hunting
  shows. Thank You Arizona Game&Fish for the non-res, tag
  price increase and the limit of tags for non-res. San Carlos keep
  up that beautiful land. KEEP OUT non-residents.

• 72. Dustin  |  December 31st, 2007 at 2:15 am

  Yes we have the giants! I antler hunt in the white mountains. we all know people or have some( i- do) who posses some 400+ sheds. Shipsey was lucky enough to bag a 502. end of story. they’re out there! FREE RANGEING AND STEROID FREE, The Wht. Mtn Apaches put mineral/protein blocks out , (I Know A Guide), yes he’s indian. But no steroids are used , elk management (culling) of small bulls and cows is regular. There are no high fences. Surrounding public units produce the same size elk as both reservations as well. They do have higher odds of getting old on the res though.

• 73. john hall  |  January 9th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

  #41 COULD YOU SEND PICTURES OF YOUR GRANPAS ELK.ITS NICE TO SEE THESE HUGE RACKS BUT ONLYIF THEY ARE THE REAL DEAL ,ONLY THEY DO.WHAT WORKS FOR ME IS I GOT A6X5 TOOK BOUT 2HRS TO DO IT VERY LUCKY.THANKS .

• 74. r belknap  |  February 21st, 2008 at 7:10 am

  im from that rez and the bull was amazing!!!

• 75. Dustin Luper  |  February 25th, 2008 at 11:49 am

  I shed hunt and scout bulls about15 miles from where this shipsey bull was taken on white mans land, AZ is home of the giants and this bull proves it. 400+ class sheds are common near and on the San Carlos and White Mountain Apache reservations. The natives frequently sell their sheds for next to nothing to only a couple local dealers their forced to sell to.The truth is that 500class Wild bull elk reside in Arizona, this especially holds true on the reservations. They have strict trophy management and little to no harrassment by their keepers, the proud Apache Tribes. There are no High Fences, But the Elk know their Safe on the res’pretty much .And the res’ are huge! A 500 bull is no different than a 300 inch buck, theyre out their. It’s a shame this bull isn’t recognized!

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