King’s Outdoor World Blog

32 Comments Add your own

• 1. Andrew Nichols  |  November 16th, 2006 at 9:01 am

  I just read your post, looking for comments concerning the “average” hunter and wanted to respond. I have been hunting since I was 20, starting on my own while attending college in Nevada and consider myself a “average” hunter. I maybe average in the amount of time in get into the field, but my passion is 24/7! I find myself thinknig of being in the field all the time and I stop at just about every gun/hunting store I pass. A funny thing that I find in these stores around deer season. It doesn’t matter where I go, I see this same senario take place and this is what some of my friends say is the average hunter, not me! You decide!

  Picture a crowded gun store or large hunting store, you walk up to the counter, which is three deep with “hunters” wanting to look at some new rifle and you hear this comment, ” I am going Elk hunting next week and I need a bigger rifle. I currently have a 30.06, but a friend told me I need a .338!” The guy behind the counter turns and shows the hunter a rifle and tells him that the 30.06 would be fine for elk, but the hunter has no part of it and wants to buy the new gun. He then asks for a new scope and says, ” now, I need this bore sited for me, because I don’t want to go to the range, the 30.06 hurts too much to shot, and I don’t want to shoot this gig cartridge too much…..”

  So, who is the “average” hunter? The one who thinks of hunting as a life style and takes great pain to know his or her’s equipment, practices with their weapon, or the one who only looks at his gun the night before the season begins and has to check if it still loaded from last year’s season?

• 2. Bill  |  November 16th, 2006 at 8:32 pm

  First, my opinion of an “Average Hunter” is someone that hunts every year in there home state, possibly applies for some premiuim tags in 1 or 2 other states and never has as much time in the field as they would like.
  I can see the future of the “Average Hunter” going one of two ways.
  First, with the current hunting generation aging and many states concerned with reduced hunter recuitment, the states may be increasingly willing and able to manage more premium tags or units with high quality and better draw odds for several units. “Average Hunters” could be entering an era with great oportunity and increased trophy potential. An exception would be the very most historically desirable tags, the odds may improve but only go from 1% to 3%, not very noticable to the “Average Hunter denied every year. Unfortunately this is optimistic.

  Second, I see the frustrated “Average Hunter” reducing intrest in these long shot drawings and hunter recuitment continuing to decline. These states will never have premium hunts that do not sell out. But they may have reduced hunter numbers enough that many Good Tags or general tag revenue is reduce enough that they feel a need to continue drastically increasing the Premium Tag cost to where it takes it’s toll on the “Average Hunter’s” wallet and they get priced out of many hunts.
  Actually after puting these thoughts down in front of me, I fear that we are probably moving toward the later after seeing what tag prices in western states have done in just the ten years I have been in the field.

  I am only 27 and have began to apply in about 10 states to get an opportunity at some of these great hunts. I feel lucky to have the opportunity, but I don’t feel I am the average hunter anymore. To me it is the cost to play the game, to some of my friends that have hunted with me in the past it’s not worth it anymore.

• 3. Brad Bentley  |  November 17th, 2006 at 12:35 pm

  Finally! Someone wants to hear the opinions and story’s of the hard working, blue collar, family man…”average hunter”. In other words, those of us who have to hunt the general season hunts because we can’t afford year after year, to put in for the coveted “Henry Mountains” and “Pansagaunt”. The simple fact is, hunting in the west is not losing recruitment or popularity…but exactly the paradox.
  In 2006 the state of Utah completley sold out of Archery tags, it’s not uncommon to sell out of rifle tags…but archery? The continuing growth rate of hunters is exponential, therefore…the odd’s of drawing a limited entry tag continues to dwindle faster and faster with each passing year. I’m not trying to discourage people from hunting and/or putting in for premium units. The point I’m trying to make is…hunters+more hunters=less deer harvested. And with the new law that states the legal hunting age is now 12 instead of 14, that brings even more hunters to the field. All of these younger hunters are allowed to hunt all three seasons until they are 18 years old.
  I’ve looked through my grandfathers photo album many times, and each time I do, I marvel. The amount of deer and the amount of big deer is amazing. My grandfather and even my father have told me time and time again how the deer herds used to be. They tell me stories of just going for a sunday drive in the mountains and seeing dozens of seperate herds of deer loaded with big bucks. I know every one of you have seen those “Good Ole’ Day” pictures, what happened? Just what I talked about earlier, more hunters…less deer.
  As much as I hate to say it, because I love to hunt just as much as the next “average hunter”. But…in order to get the deer herds back to where they used to be with several big bucks in each herd, some units(general season) need to be shut down for at least 5 years. I don’t mean shut down completley, just closed to rifle huters. Simply because if you look at the records, the success rate of the archery season has remained relativley the same for 14 years. The amount of deer taken in the month long archery hunt compared to a five day rifle hunt is huge. If the rifle hunt was eliminated for five years, the state of Utah might actually have a decient herd. But I know just as well as evryone else, that will never happen. The more tags they sell, the more money they make…bottom line.
  If the general season hunts started to produce good bucks again, maybe people wouldn’t be forced to put in for a high priced limited entry tag for the chance to harvest a big buck. I love to hunt, but I would rather go without for a couple of years now…than watch my grandchildren go hunting year after year without even seeing a big buck, let alone harvest one.

• 4. Stephen  |  November 17th, 2006 at 2:05 pm

  Brad I think that you have a great idea with shutting down the some areas for a few years. However like you said the state will never give up that much revenue and maybe we don’t want them to the funds do go for alot of good things like habitat restoration. I consider myself an “average hunter” I never get to hunt as much as I would like to and I never get a chance at a premium tag. I think that the best thing that we can do for the average hunter to have more opportunities at taking trophy animals is to start eliminating predators. In the area where I usually hunt the deer herd has been decimated by lions and bears and soon to be WOLVES! When I was a kid it was very rare that we ever saw a bear or a lion. Now it seems that nearly every time I am out I see one or the other. As the surrounding states have ever increasing numbers of wolves it is only a matter of time before Utah has its own increasing population of wolves. As we have seen from the other states this only means one thing for us less opportunities for the average hunter as our game animal populations are killed off by predators. I hope that we can get things under control so that our children and grandchildren will have better opportunities than we do.

• 5. ELMER CANTLON  |  November 18th, 2006 at 5:39 am

  I BELIEVE THAT THE AVERAGE HUNTER HAS THE SAME CHANCE AS PRIMEUM TAG HOLDERS OR RICH PEOPLE YES,MONEY IS MAKING HUNTING A LAZY MAN SPORT BUT INSTEAD OF HOPPING AROUND FROM AREA TO AREA AND GETTING FRUSTRATED BECAUSE YOU THINK THERES NO DEER IF YOU PICK ONE AREA AND SPEND AT LEAST FOUR TO FIVE YEARS OF TRULY LEARNING THE AREA YOU WILL FIND THAT THERE IS WORLD CLASS DEER ABSOLUTLY IN ANY AREA THAT MULEYS LIVE YES NUMBERS ARE DOWN DUE MAINLY I BELIEVE TO THE EXPLODING NUMBERS OF MOUNTAIN LIONS IN MY STATE, MULEYS ARE ADAPTING MORE AND MORE AND LETTING PEOPLE WALK RIGHT BY OR GOING TO THE LOWEST FLATS OR GOING NOCTURNAL YOU HAVE TO REALLY PUT YOUR TIME IN INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING OR ACTING LIKE YOU WANT A TROPHY

• 6. Mitch (Michelle) Powell  |  November 19th, 2006 at 5:46 am

  The “Average” hunter… Well I guess I have a leg up on that one being female, Not “as many” wives hunt these days as when I was growing up. Everytime my father was in the field so was my mom and us kids. I think hunting has dwindelled from being the “family” sport it used to be. The expense of it all certainly has taken it’s toll on the “blue” collar families so one possibly two members of the family are selected to enjoy hunting to offset the expense.
  I would consider myself very lucky in the fact that my entire family enjoys the sport of “predator” hunting, Can be done nearly year round with coyotes it is all year long. Cougars and Bears, You must choose from a variety of hunts, units, and time frames. But to my family predator hunting “keeps us going” we stay familiar with our equipment, sharpen stalking skills, improve on shot placement, and overall just become better hunters. Scouting for other game is also a benefit of predator hunting you will see all sorts of game given your demographic hunting area for the day. It too helps us to build “trustworthy” relationships with local land owners, As they don’t mind us taking coyotes out of the way and often allow us to hunt other game on they’re property after we have shown we “respect” they’re land, livestock, equipment, and wishes. I think in our area one of the biggest detourants for hunters is the limited availability of hunting areas. Private land often = NO HUNTING. And with many “average” hunters the time for scouting public land 2 hours drive from home, is simply not as available as we would like it to be. Sunday’s are often dubbed “sleep in” day, Well at my house all are dressed and ready to load up by 5:00 am, Our Sunday ritual is Predator hunting and we would not have it any other way, So in short we have found a way to get our “fix” of hunting without the major expenses that some families must endure for the “opportunity”

• 7. Doc  |  November 19th, 2006 at 10:39 pm

  I am a resident of Idaho and grew up hunting the Southeast corner of the state in the famous Diamond Creek zone.
  I paid my $4.50 tuition for hunters education 8 days before my 12th birthday in August of 1986 and graduated from the 5 night class on my birthday just in time to carry my own bow that year during the archery hunt. I have been carrying a bow ever since and in 20 seasons have been fortunate enough to harvest 12 elk and quite a few deer. I rarely rifle hunt….I just don’t like it. I suppose it’s because it’s not as up close and personal as archery.
  I’m not sure that you would call me the average hunter, as I do take it to more than obsessive levels, however, I don’t hunt in other states or on high fence operations or guided. DIY all the way and always in “my area”. So, I guess in retrospect, that makes me quite a bit less than average comparitively speaking.
  As for premium tags, I have been putting in for the once-in-a-lifetime antlered moose hunt for my area for 7 years and have not had a draw yet…..this is the only hunt I have ever put in for as everything else is general season archery. A tag for a moose 7 years ago was $160….it is now $180. Our elk and deer tags as well as our general hunting, fishing, trapping and baiting permits have all increased - not just a little. Hunting, when I first started, was a means of providing meat for the family in a very economical manner. It has become more of an extreme sport that if far from economical….but, as stated before by some of the other posts, you pay to play. I understand that management is very expensive and that it is very necessary. I am very thankful for the conservation programs we have in place and thankful for the amount of officers we have now. As for the predation issues we have here, well, I’m no proponent of the reintroduction of wolves or grizzly bears, but it seems more likely to me that the biggest issue with the loss of our game is due to poaching…most of the problematic poachers are locals, not out-of-staters. Poaching to me is a dirty word, because a poacher is a gluttenous waster of a vital resource and a heritage….a theif, lazy and cowardly. The worst kind of parasite because it (poaching) is sucking from us all and a prime reason for the steep increases in all of our fees.
  I guess, if I could change some things as a sportsman, the first thing I would change would be to set much steeper penalties on poaching….mandatory losses of privelages permanently along with everything used to facilitate the poach down to the clothes on their back including the stuff in their pockets. I guess all I am trying to convey here is that we, as sportsman, all need to pull together, hunt ethically and help to reinforce in those that are new to the sport that it is not just a sport, but a way of life. It’s not about the kill….it’s about the hunt. It’s about the traditions. It’s about the family and friends, old and new. It’s about hunt what you eat and eat what you hunt. Most importantly, it’s about a balance and active conservation.
  Hunt safe, cherish these times and be considerate of all - man and wild.

• 8. Ray  |  November 20th, 2006 at 8:07 am

  I am, the average hunter. I’m 62 years young and live in the state of Ohio where I have worked for an average wage. I have hunted for everything the state had to offer since I was old enough to hold a gun.Years ago as young men my friends and I dreamed of that western hunt for elk or Canada for moose and the like.As I have grown I have seen the price of hunting out grow my income. But never the less I have enjoyed my years of hunting in Ohio. I have seen the deer population grow to great proportions, even though the human growth has out done the deer. Since Ohio now holds, I understand, the worlds record for non-tipcal white tail deer (the Beatty buck) I concider myself lucky to live in a state were hunters are not compeating for tags. I’m sure a big game hunt would be the high light of my life, but I have enjoyed stocking the ever elusive Ohio white-tailed deer. It takes a lot of skill, or just plain luck, to hunt with a shotgun slug or bow and bag a big wallhanger. They are out there !

• 9. Tom Kappers  |  November 20th, 2006 at 7:54 pm

  Premium Tags: Is there hope for the average hunter?

  There will always be an ever present element of hope when it comes to hunting, whether actually slipping through the woods or checking the mailbox for the drawn tag. Such as there is hope that a prestigious hunt will find a slot in our checkbooks as there is hope that our grandchildren will share in this American heritage. Hope is foundational to hunting and without it, this beloved sport would cease to exist. Hope is what leads us to the great outdoors.

• 10. Pete F.  |  November 21st, 2006 at 5:36 pm

  Many excellent points. In the western state I live in, every hunt
  seems to be a premium hunt with low draw odds(elk, deer,
  turkey, sheep, and even javalina). Some years I have had
  friends that were not drawn for any of the above. I know
  of people waiting ten years before drawing an elk tag.
  I believe in the draw system. It helps to keep these species
  thriving. I know out of state hunters are frustrated by the
  out of state fees, but doesn’t everyone agree that they
  would rather have local hunters in your own state draw
  those tags? I am a bowhunter only and believe that with
  out our draw system there would be no quality species at
  all for our children/grandchildren to hunt for.

  Stay safe and good luck.

• 11. Scotty B  |  November 22nd, 2006 at 8:04 am

  My thought on the average hunter would be the one who just goes to the woods or field when the season is in , not being in the woods or field year long. The one who climbs up in the stand on opening day and has not done any scouting and expects to kill a deer, and complains how he don’t have big deer (I’m talking about whitetails)b/c they just don’t get that big “around here”. I don’t even consider the guy who goes to Texas or some of these other states with large ranches and pays to kill a big deer a hunter. He has literally payed someone to do his scouting for him and also do all the hard work involved in getting a herd of quality deer. A “GOOD HUNTER” to me is the one who spend quality time in the woods or field scouting, planting food plots, and improving the habitat for all wildlife. He also manages his wildlife only taking mature bucks or even culling some “cull buck” and killing the right amount of does to keep the herd even.
  As far as the price of hunting in my State (Georgia), I think is on the rise due to out of state hunters and also Timber Co. selling off land to developers. Also I think some of the local magazines hurt the cost of hunting. What I mean by that is they show off the quality deer we have in Ga and makes others want to come in and hunt and will pay $$$$. Now these magazines are also very involved in protecting hunters rights and trying to save land and keeping hunters informed on local government and the politicians who support huniting.

• 12. John R.  |  November 22nd, 2006 at 10:33 am

  I think of myself as an average hunter. I hunt deer in my home state of Texas every year and hunt elk in Colorado (except this year i didn’t draw, my 4th missed season since 1978). I prefer to hunt private land in both states to aviod the crowd and for added safety. In the last 10 to 15 years game animals have become a cash crop for the rancher/landowner and I realize that ranchers are in a survival mode and it is necessary to charge what the market will bear. It is after all, supply and demand and this sport is in high demand.
  I do not think of the the hunter that goes on the $6000.00 elk hunt or $3500.00 mule deer hunt as the average hunter. The game ranches and the high dollar outfitters cater to the hunter who just wants to fly in and be picked up at the airport, make the shot, eat a meal made by the french chef and fly home and have his TROPHY mounted and FED-X to his office.
  I try to draw an either sex tag for elk because “you can’t eat the horns”. I have some mounts, not records but great memories to me, but I much prefer meat in the freezer. I love the outdoors and if I don’t kill anything ( which is common) I am just as satisfied (not really) as if I bring home a trophy. Just getting out with my friends, sleeping under the stars, smelling the camp fire, and to participate in the hunt is a trophy to take home each year.
  Thats average, not the guy who submits for tags in 4 states and carries the newest “mountain rifle”, the Swarovski binos, range finder and spotting scope and wears the right camo pattern. I don’t have that kind of money or vacation time to invest.

• 13. lester  |  November 23rd, 2006 at 8:44 pm

  Im from wyoming and have seen a dramatic increase in the price of tags,this will be the first year that i have put in for moose and it is $105.00 but wyoming is still one of the cheapest states to buy tags in, though in wyoming if you dont draw a moose, mountain goat, or bighorn sheep tag you get all but 4 or 5 dollars back and you build preferance points. im only 16 but i do truely believe that in wyoming every hunters ship is coming becaus eonce you have enough preferance points for moose or bighorns you cant draw again for five years and you have to build your points up again, but means wyoming has a small number of mountain goats and only one area for them this permit is a once in a lifetime tag so you can only draw once and if you dont get your goat your out of luck, but for the lucky hunters that get one they have memories to last a lifetime.

• 14. lester  |  November 23rd, 2006 at 8:47 pm

  correction ____ once you have enough preferance points “and draw” you cant “put in for five years after that

• 15. Christina  |  November 25th, 2006 at 11:57 am

  After reading everyones comments, I too, have a different opinion of the “average hunter”.
  My husband’s family have been hunting and camping in the same spot for over 50 years. Every year, we all pack up (mom,dad,kids,grandparents,aunts,uncles, etc) and we head up state to hunt. We camp @ 4500 ft. elevation for 10-14 days of ruff and tuff camping. We tent camp. We get our own water from the creek, and for many years we heated our tent with a wood stove. We have since upgraded to propane, but you get the gist of it. Our daughter who is now 15, was 6 weeks old the first time she went “hunting”. For us it is truely a family affair. Our 3 children have grown up in the woods. Hiking and hunting with not only their dad and I, but their grandparents and great grandparents also. Over the last 50 years, you get to know the “locals” and you get to know your fellow hunters that camp and hunt in your area. Many of our fellow hunters come back every year just like us. So you get to know them even though you only see them 2 weeks out of the year. Through the years we have seen it all, from animals being poached to animals being left to rot because a hunter shot a 2 point in a 3 point minimum area. Not only do we hunt because we enjoy it, but we hunt because the animals that we harvest are not injected with hormones and antibiotics. The first meat that our children injested when they were babies was wild meat. And I knew it din’t have e-coli or any other bacteria, because not only did we harvest the animal, we processed it on our kitchen table. We harvest, process and package all game that we harvest. We have made evrything from venison jerky to bear summer sausage. Our children know the importance of not killing what your not going to eat.(That is our rule).
  I rifle hunt, only as time allows. My husband does both archery and modern. Our 15 year old daughter has had her deer tag for 3 years now, and hasn’t harvested a deer, yet. Partially because the area that we hunt in, has been declining in numbers for years now. We believe that it is due to poaching and the local tribes exercising their right to harvest 1 deer per family member, regardless if it is a fawn or a fully mature buck. This really frustrates us, because we know that proper management of wildlife, needs full cooperation of everyone that uses the resources available in that area.
  But, because it is “tradition” for our family, we come back to the same area regularly.
  In our home, we have the horns of every deer, that my husband and I have taken,displayed on the wall. Because we have the horns displayed, we have heard it all, when it comes to people visiting our home. We have heard, awww how can you do that, or you killed Bambi. And we have developed a few phrase in response.
  “we love animals,too, they taste really good!” and when people say how can you kill a deer, we say….”how can you order a burger from Mcdonalds?”. because in our book, the only difference is that I pulled the trigger and I know where my meat has been.
  Although, some might think we are a little extreme, we really do think that we are just the “average hunter”, who gets bucky thinking of opening day and dreads the last day of hunting season. Afterall, it is about more that harvesting an animal. It is about getting back to the basics in life, no cell phone, no computers, no electricity.
  Just you and the outdoors.
  Nothing is better!!!!!!!!!!!!

• 16. SCOTT W  |  November 25th, 2006 at 2:21 pm

  I BELEIVE WE ARE ALL AVERAGE HUNTERS. WE ARE ALL REQUIRED TO PLAY BY THE SAME RULES AND TAKE RESPONSABILITY FOR OUR OWN LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT OR LACK THERE OF.CERTAINLY FINANCIAL CONCERNS RESRICT SOME OF US, BUT WE STILL PARTICIPATE TO OUR OWN LEVEL OF ABILITY. AS WITH ANY ACTIVITY THAT WE PARTICIPATE IN AS HUMANS WE HOPE TO TAKE SOME LEVEL OF ENJOYMENT AWAY FROM THE EVENT. IF WE DO NOT WE OFTEN QUESTION OUR REASONS FOR PARTICIPATION. THE DOLLAR DOES NOT GO AS FAR AS IT DID TWENTY YEARS AGO, AND THE PUBLIC PLACES TO HUNT CONTINUE TO DWINDLE. IF THE ” AVERAGE ” HUNTER HAS THE AMBITION TO HUNT HE NEEDS TO HAVE REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS, BE INVOLVED, AND REALISE THAT THE HOUSE THAT HE OWNS ON PRIME WINTER RANGE IS AT THE ROOT OF WHAT HE CONSIDERS HIS PROBLEMS.

• 17. Seth Wilson  |  November 28th, 2006 at 9:05 pm

  The future of hunting starts right now. Everything us fellow hunters have done up to this day and what we continue to do will affect the future of hunting. The world is full of people who want to take away our hunting rights, and our second ammendment rights, and every other right we have as human beings. The future of hunting is upon us today, at this day and time.
  My opinion on the future of hunting is this: We have to stick together and fight for what we love to do. My advice to anyone and everyone reading is this. Join every conservation group you can. Whether its the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, the NWTF, Ducks Unlimited, Quail Unlimited, whatever it might be, join up. These groups have a lot of power, and the more members they have, the more pull they have in saving our heritage and conserving what we love to do.
  The high prices of hunting and guides and gear seems to be a big issue, in my eyes atleast. Its called supply and demand. Yes almost everything is too expensive for us average guys who work 40-50 hours a week just to make ends meet. But the sad truth of it is, its not gonna get any better. Everything is more expensive than it used to be, gasoline, clothes, food. And people are going to pay big money to kill big bulls and big bucks. If you are like me and love to be outdoors and hunt, you have to do the best you can, whether its hunting on public land or hunting on the ten acres you own around your home.
  To the average hunter. Ive always said “If you put your time in you’ll get paid”. And that saying is all so true. Maybe you cant afford to go pay a guy to put you in a treestand where you see 30 bucks a day. Big deal, use what you have and know to the best of your ability.Utilize public hunting grounds. Thats why we pay taxes. I spend my time in the “offseasons” scounting, looking at maps, watching hunting shows and studying what the pros do, how they react, and how the game reacts to different conditions. You have to do the same. If you are able, use scouting cameras. When you get a chance, go find some rub lines, or put those turkeys on roost. You cant think like a person, you have to think like the animal. if you were being chased by guys with big guns would you stand out in an open field? Find the deer or turkeys or elk, whatever you might hunt, and study them. You have to get in there and crawl in bed with them. You have to figure out what they like to eat, where they get their water. Get out and find that big buck or that covey of quail. You have nothing to lose by doing this. Everytime Im in the woods is great for me, as a person and as a hunter. it doesnt even matter if you see a deer or hear a turkey gobbling. Its the experience we’re after and the memories. Some of my greatest memories are being outdoors with different family members. I remember little jokes and the fun times and sometimes dont remember what we harvested or how many. So as I said before, “If you put your time in, you will get paid”.
  Seth Wilson

• 18. Cade S  |  November 30th, 2006 at 5:20 pm

  I don’t believe that the average hunter puts in for mulitple draws. Therefore I don’t believe he/she will draw many tags in their lives. They might draw 2-3 in their lifetime. If you were to put in for Utah’s Henry Mountains, starting in 2007, with zero points you’d be garunteed a tag in 138 years (that’s of last years results.) I’m not trying to be negative I’m just going off the numbers given to all of us. I believe that Utah’s problem (the state I live in,) is that they under manage the deer units. I think we should learn from the other states around us *cough Colorado *cough. Some ideas I personally think would help the herds.

  1. Cut the amount of tags in half and charge double the price. That way the state doesn’t lose any revanue and cuts the amount of deer harvested.
  2. 3 pt. or better. When they did this it helped tremendously.
  3. Increase the amount of Mountain Lion tags.
  4. Do away with the deticated hunter program. If anyone wants to argue this with me they are more than welcome.

• 19. Dusty Cochran  |  November 30th, 2006 at 9:51 pm

  I live and hunt in the white mountains of Arizona. I enjoy hunting lions in the snow. I respect you boys the go dry ground but I dont have the time.For the past four years we have only treed 4 lions,I believe this is do to the lack of game out there.The past couple of years they have been hammering the cows.This year there were less trophy bulls killed, and almost everything was brokenup. I dont know if you guys are familiar with ranching but you kill all your cows what do have left.Why are they killing cows and does dont the lions and predators do enough.I dream of killing a 200inch muley but the chance of getting drawn and the rate there getting killed off that probable wont happen, my kids will probable never see a deer that big.Hunter oppratunity its going to be camping with gun. Money is killing our sport in more ways than one…

• 20. Jason Piebenga  |  November 30th, 2006 at 11:07 pm

  Most hunters these days are willing to stand up for what they beleive in. Many of us hunters cannot fight the high prices, anti-hunters and many of the other hardships ourselves but i beleive if the time comes and we have to stand together on the issue of hunting i beleive it can be done. We just have to be organized to do it.

• 21. Cade S  |  December 1st, 2006 at 10:12 am

  @ Dusty’s comments - I don’t think money is killing our herds. It’s people. Hunting is growing faster than what we are managing for. That’s the issue. Personally, I rather hunt every third year and have the chance at a trophy rather than chasing around little bucks.

• 22. keith  |  December 1st, 2006 at 10:48 pm

  To me, it is plain and simple. The average hunter is not going to get a crack at a nice buck unless he, or she has alot of money, Hunting has turned into a rich mans event. It is amazing, people with lots of money always seem to get drawed for most of the best units anywear, don`t get me wrong, a fist full of the (aveage) hunters get drawn, but how many of your close hunting buddies get drawn every year or if they ever do. To me, if you want to kill big bucks some how find lots of money because that is what hunting is all about anymore. But that is just my opinion, an average hunter with the averge income that will tell my kids that is how it used to be when i was a kid.

• 23. Dusty Cochran  |  December 2nd, 2006 at 10:37 pm

  I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed,but common sense tells me that just because a doe or a cow doesnt have huge antlers, it doesnt mean the genes for it don’t live in that animal.I realize that there are alot of people that like to hunt. I would personally wait at a chance to kill a trophy animal than kill a doe or a cow.I am afraid that if they keep killing cows and does the trophy genetics are going to die.Last year alone they put out over 300 cow tags in units 3a and 3c. To the aveage Hunter there thinking heck yea an easy tag to draw lets go hunting.Today the draw is so tough that people would put in for cow just so they can hunt. How the heck is the average hunter on the average paycheck suppose to be able to afford to put himself ,maybe his wife, and kids in at the price of the recent tag price increase they did in arizona.So what if you have the internet if you get luky enough to get drawn your in debt for a couple of years.I believe that when my 2 year old is oldenough to hunt, the average person will not be able to afford to put in on the draw,and I think that they are managing for money not game,so we will have to hunt with the expectations of not filling our tags.Remember how hunting is and how it was, because if things keep going the way they are all we will have is are memories, and magazines full of rich people hunting in mexico or on private ranches killing big animals.All we will be able to do is tell are kids about when we where kids and the big trophy animals that used to live on public land.No matter what happens its all about the MEMORIES for us and the kids.

• 24. TTRA06  |  December 5th, 2006 at 9:07 am

  THE WORLD NEEDS HUNTERS TO HELP THE ECONOMY BUT WHEN HALF OF THE WORLD THINKS HUNTING IS WRONG HOW CAN THEY JACK UP THE PRICES OF THE TAGS THAT WE AS THE “AVERAGE HUNTER”BUYS? THIS IS MY PREDICTION…WHEN THE TRY TO TAKE OUR GUNS WELL SHOOT THEM WHEN THEY TRY TO TAKE ARE TAGS WE’LL MAKE MORE AND WHEN THEY TRY TO TAKE HUNTING ALL TOGETHER WE’LL HAVE THE BIGGEST REBELLION IN THE HISORY OF THE WORLD.

• 25. Seth Wilson  |  December 5th, 2006 at 2:50 pm

  To Dusty- I have to disagree with your comments on the doe and cow tags. Its called management. To be able to obtain trophy bulls and bucks you have to manage the females. If you’ve ever studied conservation and management you would know that it is necessary to thin out does and cows as well as certain bucks and bulls to control the population and get your buck/doe ratio where it is supposed to be. Im an average person with an average paycheck, and if all I can afford is a cow tag in Colorado or a doe tag in Illinois, heck yeah Im gonna take it. Like you said, its all about the memories. The high prices of tags is no different than the high prices of anything else. Its no different than new trucks or houses or land or anything else. Everything is expensive, you have to either accept it and do the best you can or go find yourself another hobby. As I said in my comments before, utilize what you have, use public hunting grounds. You have to go back to the basics, find the game and hunt them. It doesnt have to be fancy, you dont have to have climbing tree stands and Kimber rifles and a five hundred dollar set of camo. If you know what you are doing and utilize what you have you will be successfull. As I always say” If you put your time in, you will be paid”.
  Seth Wilson
  North Carolina

• 26. Mitch  |  December 5th, 2006 at 3:08 pm

  I do not we believe there is such a thing as an average hunter. there are people that hunt and people that don’t. Average? How do you qualify that? We all vary in a number of ways. How much time we spend in the field hunting and scouting, how much we spend on equiptment and tags, Ethics, just to name a few. Of course everybody thinks they are the Average Hunter, as do I. I have never put in for a premium tag, However I will be doing so from now on. I believe that the prices are getting out of control. I’m lucky that I have a place to hunt. My family owns a few thousand acres of mountain land. I have hunted there every year for the last 19 years. I’ve shot a few mature deer there. Nothing to go in the record books, but I’ve have had some success. There are also elk on the property. I’ve never harvested an elk because it is a limited enty unit. I really don’t like the idea of paying upwards of $500 to hunt on my own land, if I can draw a tag every ten years. Sure I can get a landowner tag but that is upward of $3000. If and when I draw my tag I will shoot my elk and probabally never put in for another premium hunt again. Yes I love to hunt but I don’t want to have to morgage my house for it. I fear what the future holds for me and for the next generation of hunters. The cost of hunting goes up evey year and the quality of animals go down every year. I Don’t like the idea of the premium Tags. It makes the me think that only the wealthy people are entitled to hunt and that is wrong. I don’t have a problem with wealthy people wanting to hunt but it shouldn’t be whored out to the highest bidder. Hunting is our ancestry and our right as americans and should not be used by the goverment as a means to extract more money from the people.

• 27. Jordan Kempf  |  December 6th, 2006 at 7:11 pm

  I”ve been hunting for 17 years and at age 31, I have just taken my
  first elk- an awesome 7×7 nine and half year old bull. I’ve been
  elk hunting for 7 of the 17 years, and all in the same unit. While
  packing out my bull (6 meat trips & 1 head/cape) I saw a 6 point
  that would go about 340. I am just an average guy and I work on the drilling rigs in Alberta Canada’s oil patch. My time in the field is
  limited to one week out of a month and whatever money I have
  left after the mortgage and bills. It would be heaven for me to spend three weeks a month in the field and sleep the other. I
  hunt during general gun season in an area where elk tags are
  general for 6 point or better. It recieves a fair amount of
  pressure. I believe that time and money have a lot to do with
  success. After only being able to make two 4 day trips to this zone a year, more time and more money would have probably made me find this honey hole a long time ago. My best advice for
  the average hunter these days, is to choose an area and stick
  with it. Learn it better than the other guys and get far back off
  the beaten path. It may mean packing out an animal in several
  trips, but it’s a great wave of pride you feel after you
  accomplish it.

• 28. Seth Wilson  |  December 6th, 2006 at 8:41 pm

  To all you people writing in whining and crying about the price of hunting: Get over it! Im 22 years old, I have my own house, two vehicles, a wife, one child and one on the way, and payments to go along with all of them. Im not a college grad with degrees and such, I walked out of highschool to my job down the road and have never looked back. I dont have bundles of money to spend on hunting much less anything else. But you know what, I still hunt, every opportunity. I cant afford to go out and pay guides and outfitters to put me on a big buck or bull. So what does that mean to me? It means I have to utilize opportunities I have and use the knowledge I have to the best of my ability. Like I said, Im 22 years old, Ive got 6 deer on my wall that score over 140″ B&C(thats not BTR score either, thats net B&C), Ive got 2 deer @ the taxidermist already from this year(one that will gross in the high 150’s/low 160’s and another that will blow your mind for an 8 pointer), Ive got an elk I harvested last year that scores 320″, an antelope with 15 3/4″ prongs and has a 14″ inside spread. All these I have taken on my own with the best of my ability and using the knowledge I have gained as a hunter. Sure there are TV shows dedicated to taking big bucks on private land with guides and outfitters, and blogs on the internet pertaining to high priced tags, and magazines with the top animals killed in high fenced and strictly managed free ranges. And Im with all you people, it is too expensive for the tags and outfitters and even the opportunity to hunt a big ranch. All that means to me is that you have to use what you have available to you, whether its public land, your own little tract or private land, a hunting club lease, whatever it might be, use it to your advantage. You want to kill big deer? Then let those spikes walk, let those 2 and 3 year old deer walk. Put your time in and study what you are hunting. Get local maps of your hunting area, find out where those deer or elk are working, sleeping, eating etc. If you do this I gaurantee you will be successfull. I like in an area in the mountains of western NC where the deer are far and few between. There might be 8 deer within a 3 mile radius of my house thats surrounded by steep mountains and miles and miles of national forest. I have been hunting one particular deer for 5 years without being successful. I have limited myself to only bowhunting this magnificent animal, but have had countless opportunites to harvest him with a firearm. And whether or not I do harvest this animal, or someone else does, or even if he dies or old age, I wont be disappointed. I’ll always have the memory of hunting this buck and thats something nobody can ever take away. I’ll always think about the many times Ive been so close, and all the times he has eluded me. Ive been in his beding grounds, at his watering hole, at the very tree he acorns at, and never harvested him. Am I not successfull? Some people would say no, I say yes, because no matter what happens between me and this particular deer, I know that he has helped me become a better hunter. Hes helped me understand to be more cautious, to be more scent-free, hes made me understand him and the way of life for a whitetail. So for all you people out there who feel you are not a good hunter or have never been able to harvest many deer, use those hunts and situations to your advantage and you will become a successfull hunter whether you harvest anything or not.
  Seth Wilson
  NC

• 29. ARROW7  |  December 16th, 2006 at 1:47 pm

  PLEASE LEAVE OHIO OUT OF YOUR HIPE , I THINK MOST OF US CAN AGREE THAT YOUR PUBLICITY IS BRINGING TOO MUCH UN-NEEDED PRESSURE AND FLOOD OF PEOPLE TO OUR AREA. IT HAS CHANGED WHAT USE TO BE A FRIENDLY EASY TO GET PERMISSION ENVIROMENT , TO A NOW NOBODY WILL LET YOU HUNT BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE PROBLEMS FROM OUT OF TOWNER’S NO RESPECT ATTITUDES.

  GODBLESS OUR HUNTING
  BUT DON’T LET GO OF THE GOOD OLD DAYS & WAYS

• 30. Ron Dodson  |  December 25th, 2006 at 11:04 pm

  I am 57 years old and have hunted most of my life, at least 45 years.I have lived in Oregon most of my life except a few years. I grew up in the good ole days of mule deer hunting. To shoot anything smaller than a four point was unheard of. Now a days a 4×4 or such. I have watched the deer heards dwindle and the population go up. Ore, dept. of wildlife say’s we have lots of animals, they stood on this position until our heards were almost gone. Now they realise and admit we have problems. The only problem they acknowledge is to many cougars. Oregon voted to make cougar hunting with dog illegal about ten years ago as did california. Thats where part of the problem lies. The people in the know aren’t running the show. Thats the same with federal mismanagement of wolves and bears in the northern rockies. Bears have also reaked havoc on Elk calves andof coarse coyotes do there fare share of damage on deer and antelopes. I think every responsible hunter should spend his off season trying to elemenate preditors until the population is back in order. The game commission could issue extra cougar tags. Orginizations could also offer bounties on preditors, if people need more incentive.
  The next thing I really disaprove of is public land being over grased by livestock, while private land is closed to the public. This should work both ways. They run their cattle on our land and then charge to hunt on theirs. Also in Ore. they can get Landowner tags. Which in turn they can sell, supposedly for crop damage. Like I said we the public don’t get payed for livestock damage. Finally I am opposed to auction hunts. They are only for the wealthy. We all buy our hunting licences, buy general tags ,pay fees and taxes. Raffles are fair because everybody has an equal chance even if you can buy more chances. The little guy still stands a chance. On an auction only the rich wins. The funds from theese hunts should be used for the speices they are bidding on not some commisioners pet speices. As in oregon where the lions share usually goes to sheep. The other problem with this is they are killing off the prime breeding stock. How many ranchers would sell their prize bull. Something has to happen here in Oregon. Seasons are short enough. Maybe less tags, season closers, for acouple of years. Ranching for wildlife like in colorado or something. I don’t have all the answers or even all the questions but I know something needs to happen. Like I say I once saw the good old days, when you couldn’t drive down the highway through winter range with out seeing thousands of mule deer, sometimes having to stop to run them off the road. Now a days you see several hundred on the same drive if your lucky. I love the west and my only regret is that I didn’t hunt more of it when I was healthy enough to do it. The future is to the young and if things decline in the next twenty years as they have in the last there won’t be any. So all you true sons of the golden west the future is now and you are the future.

• 31. Jerry Hedrick  |  December 26th, 2006 at 9:37 pm

  I read your post looking for comments concerning the future of hunting and the average hunter. First of all, let me say that I am 40 years old and have been hunting since I was 9 years old and deer hunting since I was 11. Hunting is a tradition and sport that was passed on to me by my father and I am trying to generate the interest for my two sons as well. I thoroughly enjoy time in the field with my sons and hope to create memories that will stay with them all their lives. The future of hunting lies with our kids and theirs. My biggest fear in the future of hunting is that the tradition of hunting will diminsh due to the ever growing costs associated with the “business” of hunting. I have lived in Texas for almost 7 years and I can’t believe the cost to hunt in this state. It is such big business that the average hunter, like myself, cannot afford to hunt. So, to answer your question about what is an average hunter, I am afraid to say that the costs of hunting is beginning to define what the average hunter is, at least here in Texas. If you can’t afford to play the game you are forced to sit on the sideline. I understand that this is not the case in all states where there is a lot more access to BLM and federal land. I grew up having access to local farm land in North Carolina and the only costs that I incurred was my annual hunting license fee and getting permission from the land owner. I am afraid that my kids will not have the same opportunities to continue the great tradition and sport of hunting. Upon my retirement from the military, I plan to pursue a career in Wildlife Management. If I can’t afford to support the conservation of our wildlife through hunting, at least I can try to make a difference another way. Hunting is a part of me that I refuse to give up and I will find a way to remain a part of the tradition.

• 32. Adam Bedont  |  March 8th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

  i agree #29 and 24

  LONG LIVE OLD DAYS,OLD WAYS,AND HUNTING ALL TO GEATHERE

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