Comments on: Wolves Taking Down a Moose http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/ Behind the Scenes at King's Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:59:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.2 Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Shannon http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-575559 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:01:29 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-575559 It amazes me what people are saying on this forum. How is it that it is OK for humans to kill to animals "just for fun" but not OK for a wolf to hunt in order to survive. Humans kill animals all the time for fun including hunting. All that sport hunting just so they can hang the big beasts head on their walls as some trophy! How are humans any different? Wake up people! As humans, we kill far more animals needlessly than they ever do to us. Most of the world is carniverous. If you use the analogy that we should get rid of wolves because they eat meat, than perhaps we should get rid of humans for doing the same! Introducing wolves into Yellowstone has actually shown to beneficial. Elk and deer are responsible for overgrazing a lot of the natural vegetation in the park, and since the wolves have been keeping the elk and deer populations in check there has been an increase in the vegetation growth. If you remove all the predators from an area, the deer and elk populations will get out of hand. Eventually people will end up culling them because their numbers are too large. So, why can't we allow nature to keep the numbers in check by keeping the wolves? I think most of the people on this forum are upset that wolves are killing the same deer/elk/moose they wish they could be killing themselves! It amazes me what people are saying on this forum. How is it that it is OK for humans to kill to animals “just for fun” but not OK for a wolf to hunt in order to survive. Humans kill animals all the time for fun including hunting. All that sport hunting just so they can hang the big beasts head on their walls as some trophy! How are humans any different? Wake up people!

As humans, we kill far more animals needlessly than they ever do to us. Most of the world is carniverous. If you use the analogy that we should get rid of wolves because they eat meat, than perhaps we should get rid of humans for doing the same!

Introducing wolves into Yellowstone has actually shown to beneficial. Elk and deer are responsible for overgrazing a lot of the natural vegetation in the park, and since the wolves have been keeping the elk and deer populations in check there has been an increase in the vegetation growth.

If you remove all the predators from an area, the deer and elk populations will get out of hand. Eventually people will end up culling them because their numbers are too large. So, why can’t we allow nature to keep the numbers in check by keeping the wolves?

I think most of the people on this forum are upset that wolves are killing the same deer/elk/moose they wish they could be killing themselves!

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Lorrainw Kilw http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-570210 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:18:25 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-570210 Within two weeks, I will be attending a "wolf information" meeting, one of 15 for the state of Washington, since wolves are now being introduced in this state (from Idaho and/or Canada). I have also been a cattle rancher since 1960. You already guess what I am going to say----NO I do not want wolves introduced in the state of Washington. However, I realize that the "eco-freaks" from the Western part of the state and "do-gooders" in today" city-oriented world" will not even bother to listen or respect what I have to say. 1) Yes, wolves do kill livestock---any the state says that they might be willing to pay for my dead cattle, but (1) I will have to prove that they were killed by a wolf and I must see them in the process of actually killing ( I have 70 cows: do I stay with my cows day and night to protect them---actually cows graze at night on the hillsides, making it rather difficult for me to watch them) 2) If I can prove to Fish and Wildlife Dept that my cow was killed by a wolf----they might be willing to pay me half the cost of a cow that is sold as a cull cow at an auction yard---typically a cow that is too old for a rancher to keep) However, I buy quality, registered bred cows from Central Montana, and my usual cost is about $1,400 per cow. Fish and Wildlife, if I am lucky might be willing to pay me about $200.(hardly a break-even cost!) 3) If wolves kill my cattle, my only option is to sell my 3,000 acre ranch in Central Washington State, and left the Land Developers develop it into small 5-acre lots (which has happened in Colorado and elsewhere) We are cattle ranchers by choice as a livestyle----getting rich was not our goal, and we have grandchildren living here who hope to continue ranching when we are too old to do so. 4) We already have rattlesnakes, coyotes, cougar, bear and a fairly large number of mule deer living on our ranch. Our grandchildren are now on our ranch hunting deer for their winter meat supply. We cannot and will not willingly add wolves . Thank you for listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Within two weeks, I will be attending a “wolf information” meeting, one of 15 for the state of Washington, since wolves are now being introduced in this state (from Idaho and/or Canada). I have also been a cattle rancher since 1960. You already guess what I am going to say—-NO I do not want wolves introduced in the state of Washington. However, I realize that the “eco-freaks” from the Western part of the state and “do-gooders” in today” city-oriented world” will not even bother to listen or respect what I have to say.

1) Yes, wolves do kill livestock—any the state says that they might be willing to pay for my dead cattle, but (1) I will have to prove that they were killed by a wolf and I must see them in the process of actually killing ( I have 70 cows: do I stay with my cows day and night to protect them—actually cows graze at night on the hillsides, making it rather difficult for me to watch them)
2) If I can prove to Fish and Wildlife Dept that my cow was killed by a wolf—-they might be willing to pay me half the cost of a cow that is sold as a cull cow at an auction yard—typically a cow that is too old for a rancher to keep) However, I buy quality, registered bred cows from Central Montana, and my usual cost is about $1,400 per cow. Fish and Wildlife, if I am lucky might be willing to pay me about $200.(hardly a break-even cost!)
3) If wolves kill my cattle, my only option is to sell my 3,000 acre ranch in Central Washington State, and left the Land Developers develop it into small 5-acre lots (which has happened in Colorado and elsewhere) We are cattle ranchers by choice as a livestyle—-getting rich was not our goal, and we have grandchildren living here who hope to continue ranching when we are too old to do so.
4) We already have rattlesnakes, coyotes, cougar, bear and a fairly large number of mule deer living on our ranch. Our grandchildren are now on our ranch hunting deer for their winter meat supply. We cannot and will not willingly add wolves . Thank you for listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Mike http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-568041 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:49:01 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-568041 Not sure why wolves were introduced into Idaho. It doesn't seem like the local population supports their presence in the slightest. Perhaps a more progressive neighboring state would be a better fit. Seems to be a problem mainly in Central Idaho where they live closer to human populations. I dont agree that the only good wolf is a dead wolf like what most seem to be saying. Wolves are important part of a local ecology without predators, Elk and deer populations become over populated. Hunters quit complaining about the change in behavior wolves have caused in your beloved Elk and learn to adapt. Wolves can benefit your town with Tourist money and hunting permits from Idaho Fish and Game. You really want to make the same mistake your forefathers did? Eliminate all wolves from your state, so you can hunt Elk more easily? Not sure why wolves were introduced into Idaho. It doesn’t seem like the local population supports their presence in the slightest. Perhaps a more progressive neighboring state would be a better fit.

Seems to be a problem mainly in Central Idaho where they live closer to human populations. I dont agree that the only good wolf is a dead wolf like what most seem to be saying. Wolves are important part of a local ecology without predators, Elk and deer populations become over populated. Hunters quit complaining about the change in behavior wolves have caused in your beloved Elk and learn to adapt. Wolves can benefit your town with Tourist money and hunting permits from Idaho Fish and Game. You really want to make the same mistake your forefathers did? Eliminate all wolves from your state, so you can hunt Elk more easily?

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Alex http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-559516 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:19:56 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-559516 I agree that elks look majestic and awesome, but with no predators they could overpopulate and starve to death I agree that elks look majestic and awesome, but with no predators they could overpopulate and starve to death

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Ron http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-541592 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:30:46 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-541592 Being a long time non-resident Idaho hunter, it's been all too easy to notice that as the wolf population increased the deer and elk population has decreased. Most noticeable is the behavior of elk in areas with known wolf packs. The majestic sound of a bull elk bugling is now a dinner bell for any wolves in hearing range. I am not saying that all elk that bugle are being killed by wolves, however the elk behavior is definitely changing. The elk are now much more reluctant to make noise: calls, bugles, mews and other elk talk – the sounds that traditionally echoed off hillsides, canyons, and river bottoms are much less likely to be heard in recent years. These are also the sounds that attract hunters and their wallets. Revenue from hunters far exceeds that from the 75-100 people a year who come to see a wolf, if they know where to look? It is too bad that wildlife managers allowed a non-native species of wolf to be allowed to wreak havoc on a wildlife population that was doing just fine! Worse, their hands are now being tied when they try to manage population levels of this same non-native species. What species should we introduce next? Woolly mammoth, Sabre tooth tiger, how about a T-rex. Maybe someone in a lab has some DNA from one or all of these animals that can be manipulated in some perverse way, and turned loose in Idaho: The experimental state! Being a long time non-resident Idaho hunter, it’s been all too easy to notice that as the wolf population increased the deer and elk population has decreased. Most noticeable is the behavior of elk in areas with known wolf packs. The majestic sound of a bull elk bugling is now a dinner bell for any wolves in hearing range. I am not saying that all elk that bugle are being killed by wolves, however the elk behavior is definitely changing. The elk are now much more reluctant to make noise: calls, bugles, mews and other elk talk – the sounds that traditionally echoed off hillsides, canyons, and river bottoms are much less likely to be heard in recent years. These are also the sounds that attract hunters and their wallets. Revenue from hunters far exceeds that from the 75-100 people a year who come to see a wolf, if they know where to look? It is too bad that wildlife managers allowed a non-native species of wolf to be allowed to wreak havoc on a wildlife population that was doing just fine! Worse, their hands are now being tied when they try to manage population levels of this same non-native species. What species should we introduce next? Woolly mammoth, Sabre tooth tiger, how about a T-rex. Maybe someone in a lab has some DNA from one or all of these animals that can be manipulated in some perverse way, and turned loose in Idaho: The experimental state!

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Tim http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-536305 Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:18:55 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-536305 Don't know what the people who started restocking wolves were thinking, but even as an eastern boy I know they would be killing game, and not just the weak and sick but anything they came across, then outdoor pets, and if your out in the woods, YOU. Just another stupid decision by the federal government, which isn't a surprise. Don’t know what the people who started restocking wolves were thinking, but even as an eastern boy I know they would be killing game, and not just the weak and sick but anything they came across, then outdoor pets, and if your out in the woods, YOU. Just another stupid decision by the federal government, which isn’t a surprise.

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Patrick http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-536102 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:21:05 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-536102 I'm glad I came across this site and this blog. I have read all responses and must say there is quite a variation of responses from the pro and anti wolfers. The thing that sticks out the most is how we have people from the immediate areas giving first hand knowledge of the problem. Then we have those outside of the area giving their perspective on how to portray a hunter/conservationist to the public. Of course there will always be the PETA folks with NO KNOWLEDGE of what is going on wanting to put in there 2 cents. Always amazes me how people who never put a penny into our conservation projects want to tell us how we should run them. I live in Montana and haved been hunting ever since I was 5 years old so I know about past and present habits and numbers of deer, elk and moose on a first hand basis. What these people are telling you about their immediate areas is real. If you stop to think about this for a minute you may get a better understanding of who you should be listening to. Fact is the eradication of wolves started in the US back during the great depression when people were concerned about preserving what little resources they had in order to survive. The government put a bounty out on the wolf, not the gun toting, blood thirsty hunters that PETA likes to portray us to be. Heck even the show America's Most Wanted portrayed one of their fugitives to be an animal as after he killed an elk he painted his face with the blood. Man If I see fresh elk crap while I am out hunting you can bet I will step in it, kneel in it and get it all over myself to mask my scent. Not much chance of gutting out an elk without getting blood on you either. This wolf "reintroduction" as they call it is just a means to an end as far as PETA is concerned. Their main objective is an all out ban on all hunting, trapping and fishing. If you look at all past events in US history things must come to a boiling point for change to occur. All the way back to the establishing of the English colonies it has been proven that just talking will rarely solve a problem. The time for a boiling point is now!! Has anyone ever sat back and thought about why Ducks Unlimited was established? It was to preserve wetland wildlife. That is done by managing predators, ie fox, skunks and racoons. It is also responsible for maintaining habitat for that wildlife which inhabits the areas. What has the wolf reintroduction people done to manage this predator or preserve wintering/breeding grounds for the deer and elk? What I have seen in my area first was an all out change in elk behavior. Up until the wolves came into play the elk would always head straight up to the higest point of a mountain to escape what they thought may be a danger. Now the elk run out into the sagebrush areas before looking back to see what the danger was. They have been pushed from their normal range to the timber edges. That sure gives the hunter or wildlife viewer a good view of what remains and what remains is close to a 10 percent survival rate for new calves. Now most ranchers that raise cattle sell 50 percent of their cattle every year all the while their cattle numbers stay the same. So if you do the math these elk don't reproduce fast enough to replenish the numbers being killed by wolves every year. It's just a matter of time for the master plan of the PETA organization to become reality. So for those that say it is not our job to "play God" I would have to say that no where in the Bible does it not tell us to manage our wildlife. In fact it tells us to manage our wildlife. I could go on for hours about this but what people as an outdoorsman, hunter, trapper or just conservationist need to get involved. Try logging on to www.lobowatch.com or www.savelk.com and hear the part of the wolf story those PETA members don't want you to hear. For those of you who think the wolf problem doesn't concern you, you may want to see what was passed in recent weeks down in Texas with the Mexican wolf. What happened here and has so effectivly worked for PETA is now going to happen on that side of the states. Here's the link http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=371072&messages=3&forum=36 I'm gonna go ahead and throw my email out there just in case you people have any questions ....or if you PETA people want to make more threats..LOL Believe me it don't matter to me what you PETA people think. trappenfool@yahoo.com I’m glad I came across this site and this blog.
I have read all responses and must say there is quite a variation of responses from the pro and anti wolfers. The thing that sticks out the most is how we have people from the immediate areas giving first hand knowledge of the problem. Then we have those outside of the area giving their perspective on how to portray a hunter/conservationist to the public. Of course there will always be the PETA folks with NO KNOWLEDGE of what is going on wanting to put in there 2 cents. Always amazes me how people who never put a penny into our conservation projects want to tell us how we should run them.
I live in Montana and haved been hunting ever since I was 5 years old so I know about past and present habits and numbers of deer, elk and moose on a first hand basis. What these people are telling you about their immediate areas is real.
If you stop to think about this for a minute you may get a better understanding of who you should be listening to. Fact is the eradication of wolves started in the US back during the great depression when people were concerned about preserving what little resources they had in order to survive. The government put a bounty out on the wolf, not the gun toting, blood thirsty hunters that PETA likes to portray us to be. Heck even the show America’s Most Wanted portrayed one of their fugitives to be an animal as after he killed an elk he painted his face with the blood. Man If I see fresh elk crap while I am out hunting you can bet I will step in it, kneel in it and get it all over myself to mask my scent. Not much chance of gutting out an elk without getting blood on you either.
This wolf “reintroduction” as they call it is just a means to an end as far as PETA is concerned. Their main objective is an all out ban on all hunting, trapping and fishing. If you look at all past events in US history things must come to a boiling point for change to occur. All the way back to the establishing of the English colonies it has been proven that just talking will rarely solve a problem. The time for a boiling point is now!!
Has anyone ever sat back and thought about why Ducks Unlimited was established? It was to preserve wetland wildlife. That is done by managing predators, ie fox, skunks and racoons. It is also responsible for maintaining habitat for that wildlife which inhabits the areas. What has the wolf reintroduction people done to manage this predator or preserve wintering/breeding grounds for the deer and elk?
What I have seen in my area first was an all out change in elk behavior. Up until the wolves came into play the elk would always head straight up to the higest point of a mountain to escape what they thought may be a danger. Now the elk run out into the sagebrush areas before looking back to see what the danger was. They have been pushed from their normal range to the timber edges. That sure gives the hunter or wildlife viewer a good view of what remains and what remains is close to a 10 percent survival rate for new calves.
Now most ranchers that raise cattle sell 50 percent of their cattle every year all the while their cattle numbers stay the same. So if you do the math these elk don’t reproduce fast enough to replenish the numbers being killed by wolves every year. It’s just a matter of time for the master plan of the PETA organization to become reality.
So for those that say it is not our job to “play God” I would have to say that no where in the Bible does it not tell us to manage our wildlife. In fact it tells us to manage our wildlife.
I could go on for hours about this but what people as an outdoorsman, hunter, trapper or just conservationist need to get involved. Try logging on to www.lobowatch.com or www.savelk.com and hear the part of the wolf story those PETA members don’t want you to hear.
For those of you who think the wolf problem doesn’t concern you, you may want to see what was passed in recent weeks down in Texas with the Mexican wolf. What happened here and has so effectivly worked for PETA is now going to happen on that side of the states. Here’s the link
http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=371072&messages=3&forum=36

I’m gonna go ahead and throw my email out there just in case you people have any questions ….or if you PETA people want to make more threats..LOL Believe me it don’t matter to me what you PETA people think. trappenfool@yahoo.com

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: HL http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-510956 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:37:28 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-510956 I can't believe the thinking of some people. Wolves are not endangered. They breed in captivity like a dog. When people talk about them keeping the deer, elk and moose numbers in check, why not let the government instead issue more tags to people who are in need of food? Why do we want more wolves conceived to take the food when there are already living creatures, i.e. children actually living in poverty here in the good ol' USA that go to bed hungry? Did anyone think that maybe God gave us this food to eat? Let's eat what we need and manage it carefully. Wolves don't manage it, they eat anything and everything they find. It takes 400 elk kills a year to feed 20 wolves. That is A TON of elk! And they say we are doing harm to nature!!?!! I'll tell you, to the animal activist people who think it is inhumane to kill the elk and deer to eat, if I were an elk or deer, I would much rather take a bullet than be slowly eaten alive. Outdoor life had a series of photos of a doe being eaten alive by a wolf, who then left her and came back to her a few hours later to eat on her some more as she lay there suffering. Wolves don't even have the decency to put their prey out of its misery first. They start eating at the rear. Sickening! I can’t believe the thinking of some people. Wolves are not endangered. They breed in captivity like a dog.
When people talk about them keeping the deer, elk and moose numbers in check, why not let the government instead issue more tags to people who are in need of food? Why do we want more wolves conceived to take the food when there are already living creatures, i.e. children actually living in poverty here in the good ol’ USA that go to bed hungry? Did anyone think that maybe God gave us this food to eat? Let’s eat what we need and manage it carefully. Wolves don’t manage it, they eat anything and everything they find. It takes 400 elk kills a year to feed 20 wolves. That is A TON of elk! And they say we are doing harm to nature!!?!!
I’ll tell you, to the animal activist people who think it is inhumane to kill the elk and deer to eat, if I were an elk or deer, I would much rather take a bullet than be slowly eaten alive. Outdoor life had a series of photos of a doe being eaten alive by a wolf, who then left her and came back to her a few hours later to eat on her some more as she lay there suffering. Wolves don’t even have the decency to put their prey out of its misery first. They start eating at the rear. Sickening!

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: WolfLover http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-496932 Wed, 13 May 2009 15:02:12 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-496932 Wolves arnt bad their getting their food just like we would do if we were hungry this is how nature is. think about it they took down this moose to eat theirs hunters out there that just hunt for the sport and just leave the animal there wolves arnt bad we need them! Wolves arnt bad their getting their food just like we would do if we were hungry this is how nature is. think about it they took down this moose to eat theirs hunters out there that just hunt for the sport and just leave the animal there wolves arnt bad we need them!

]]> Comment on Wolves Taking Down a Moose by: Preston http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-491074 Tue, 05 May 2009 22:35:37 +0000 http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2007/02/15/wolves-taking-down-a-moose/#comment-491074 I think you guys should stop wining about wolves killing moose and let nature take its course, I mean thats what god intended it for. I think you guys should stop wining about wolves killing moose and let nature take its course, I mean thats what god intended it for.

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